Oil Effect on Start/Stop Smoothness

[Shel_B]

Yes but that doesn't mean they don't pour in some proprietary additive to promote break-in.

Here's a little something to think about. Everything I've read about using break-in oil suggests a relatively short limit to using it. 500 miles, 700 miles, a thousand miles seem to be typical recommendations. Assuming that the manufacturers of break-in oil (or additives) know what they're talking about, why is it that so many new car engines recommend extended drain intervals for even the first change, and by extended I mean relative to what the makers of break-in oil suggest?

 

[4WD]

Funny word that...
Placebo is an actual cure, without the drug, not what people here attribute to in this circumstance, imagining smoother.

There's studies showing that certain oils can be quieter/noisier, that's not placebo.

And certain additives that provide that also.

Yep … and it assumed a smoother re start is a good thing … I turn that silly feature off myself …

 

[4WD]

If I were forced into a frustrating and chronic 'start stop' situation, I'd get another partner car.

View attachment 55624

I can tell you that over-ride button (to turn that garbage off) will be the first to have the letters worn off in the Jeep.

 

[Blinker]

Eh, I think some of you are missing something important. Most engines are built off site at a different facility and then are shipped to the vehicle assembly plants. The engine plant fills the engines up with oil when they do the engine run test and then it is drained. The drained oil is used over and over again for the engine run test station and is typically replenished weekly. Depending on the engine factory it could be replenished daily. Typically the oil used during the engine run test is some sort of break in oil, it is most definitely not an API/ILSAC rated oil. Some manufacturers add a leak dye to the test run oil.

The engines are shipped to the vehicle assembly lines and are filled with the specified oil at the correct quantity.

Shipping engines across the country and world with full oil pans would raise shipping and fuel costs astronomically. Let alone other international shipping restrictions.

 

[Blinker]

I had a loaner from a Chevrolet Dealer today-2021 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab/with the 5.3- had 600 miles on it. The start/stop was almost non-detectable.

Agreed. I had a rental 2020 Silverado 5.3 DFM a couple months ago and the start/stop was seamlessly smooth. It would be hard to detect the start/stop operation without looking at the tach. If I owned the truck I wouldn’t bother disabling the start stop.

Also worthy of mention, the 5.3 DFM is so smooth you never could tell when it was disabling cylinders. A huge improvement over previous AFM engines.

 

[daves87rs]

Didn’t noticed anything for the stop/start on my Nox, but the engine is quieter.....

 

[Greasymechtech]

Most owners are headintheground sheeple and wouldn't even notice the engine running different with the sump completely empty. They must drink too much tap water and eat too much GMO food. Zombies!!!

Anyone with a good mechanical feel while not being deaf can notice plenty.

The only reason for extended drain intervals is environmentalism. That is it. Nothing else.

I think that the new timing chain wear tests means less additive corners cut. I will be more impressed when API/ILSAC tests force conventional/blends to be completely eliminated. Patiently waiting for API SZ GF52 oil. That will be smooth and quiet.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

...

The only reason for extended drain intervals is environmentalism. That is it. Nothing else.

...

I've done a few UOA on my wife's car and our engine had much better wear numbers by extending my drain 50% past factory recommended than the averaged Univeral data set numbers. The engine runs excellent to this day approaching 100K miles with NO maintenance other than Oil and Filter changes.
I will admit that I would NOT be comfortable going past 10K miles even with my Wife's favourable usage of a long highway commute to work with little to no idling.

So what is an extended drain interval? And what is wrong with Environmentalism?
I think most -isms are good in moderation. That is the key - moderation.

 

[OilUzer]

I've personally never met the internet but am told it looks like bunch of 0's and 1's ...

Anyway, according to the internet:
using oils with moly is very good if your car is noisy or sounds like a typewriter. These oils cling to the parts and make things smooooth! They can also help in case of faulty oil filter adbv (again due to clingability) which can result in relatively less start-up noise until the real help (oil) arrives. Toyota and bunch of other automakers like moly. Use it and don't wake your neighbors up early in the AM.

That's why good oils with moly are kind of pricy! the other stuff (Tungsten, Titanium, etc.) are ok but not the real thing. They are like sugar substitutes.

Please contact the internet if you disagree!

 

[demarpaint]

My take on "stop/start smoothness" is quite simple, I'd disable it. Immediately in fact, one less annoyance.

 

[PimTac]

If you have to keep glancing at the tachometer while stopped to make sure the engine is running then you have a smooth engine indeed.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Funny that the coefficient of friction is not reported in engine oil. They measure that in first year college physics labs. The required starting torque would be a function of this. Pennzoil Ultra is sold as a premium product and other makers are marketing Start/Stop oils. Maybe the OP is on to something.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

IMO smoothness of S/S correlates with the number of cylinders due to the increase in rotational mass. Basically what I'm saying is that I4's will be smoother than V6/I6, and they will be smoother than V8's.

 

[kschachn]

Funny that the coefficient of friction is not reported in engine oil. They measure that in first year college physics labs. The required starting torque would be a function of this. Pennzoil Ultra is sold as a premium product and other makers are market Start/Stop oils. Maybe the OP is on to something.

It's not funny, it's because it's not an independent variable. It's actually determined by the viscosity and the HT/HS which are measured. Not as if you can't measure it but you're barking up a wrong tree if you think it's primary or some sort of conspiracy.

 

[Snagglefoot]

It's not funny, it's because it's not an independent variable. It's actually determined by the viscosity and the HT/HS which are measured. Not as if you can't measure it but you're barking up a wrong tree if you think it's primary or some sort of conspiracy.

Haha. Why so sad? The operating conditions of a start/stop are way below those of HT/HS. As they sit around the table, the engineers are looking for something to reduce the resistance to a start. I’ll leave it at that.

 

[PimTac]

As they sit around the table, the engineers are looking for something to reduce the resistance to a start. I’ll leave it at that.

I think they found it.

MAZDA: Idling Stop Technology | Environmental Technology

Idling Stop Technology. At Mazda we are always working hard to develop environmental technologies which will contribute to an exciting and sustainable future for people, automobiles, and the Earth. [MAZDA Official Web Site]

www.mazda.com

 

[kschachn]

Haha. Why so sad? The operating contains of a start/stop are way below those of HT/HS. As they sit around the table, the engineers are looking for something to reduce the resistance to a start. I’ll leave it at that.

What? Yes, the viscosity and the shear forces in the oil.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[radiometer]

I had my dealer disable the start/stop feature before I bought my current car. I guess I could have done it myself but they were kind enough to do it before I got into the car. The only time I noticed smoother start and idle was when I changed from a 5W-20 oil to a 5W-30. That might not be the experience of others but it did that for me.

 

[Silver]

Pennzoil is a good bit thinner than... well, almost any other oil in the same grade.

 

[Trav]

Automakers don’t use break in oils and they haven’t for a long time. Modern engines break in quickly on regular synthetic oil.

True. Cylinder are plateau honed which requires very little break in, a small amount of assy lube is also used, residual of this is often found in UOA's and mistaken for "break in" oil. Basically the first time the engine is hot fired it is ready to go.
The lot boys take care of the rest. Rebuilt engines with new or reground cams are another story, they do require a break in oil or additive.