Alright.. I have a friend who doesn't change his oil till at least 10K km, and he also uses diesel oil. But he always also puts in half a litre of varsal and run no more then 200 km.. usually to the store thats @ the other side fo town and back so 200 maybe exagarating. He says he does this to remove sludge and varnish (sp? Right word?? ) before he changes the oil. Is this safe?
Then I hear to run transmission oil the same way before you do an oil change to remove the sludge and stuff cause it has way higher amount of detergent then any motor oil.
I want to know if this is true, as I will be gettin GM's Top End cleaner to remove all if any sludge and stuff from the valves and such from TB down, and will do an oil change right after. But I want to ensure that I keep it clean between oil changes from that point on.
[ October 22, 2004, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
Oil Detergent
- Thread starter drifter420
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MolaKule
Staff member
What the heck is Varsal? Never heard of it.
Transmission fluids have MUCH less detergent than motor oils and always have. If you think about it, transmissions don't have to deal with combustion byproducts contaminating the oil, which is a major part of the reason that engine oils need detergent additives.
Running the engine with Varsol, kerosene, diesel fuel or any other solvent in the oil is a very old school way of cleaning the engine and is NOT AT ALL safe, IMHO. There are much better ways of keeping your engine clean. If he's using a diesel oil, extra cleaning is probably unnecessary. If he did want to do more cleaning, products like Auto RX are INFINITELY better. Even if he didn't want to use RX, Marvel Mystery Oil would be a MUCH better choice, although still unnecessary with a diesel oil and not nearly as good as RX.
Finally, please do some searching on this forum. There is a lot written about this subject.
Thanx Matt.. search engine here I come.
EDIT: all this talk about seafoam and auto RX and such.. it's all nice for you peeps in Amerca.. what aboot us bacon eating beer drinkin toque wearing canucks? Where can we get this stuff other then thru the net or in the States?
"Varsol is the ExxonMobil Chemical brand for a line of conventional aliphatic fluids with low, medium and high flash points. These fluids boil in the mineral spirits or white spirits range."
I wouldn't do what your friend does, nor dump ATF in the crankcase. Buy a couple of bottles of Schaeffer's #131 Neutra for safe, cheap crankcase cleaning...and combustion chamber and injector cleaning. It won't even cost a lot up there in the frozen North.
Ken
MolaKule
Staff member
Thanks Ken2. So Varsol could be a mix of cyclohexanes, cyclohexanones, etc. BTW, by themselves, these types of chemicals are bad news for seals.
Drifter,
Oil detergents and solvents are two different entities.
Oil detergents attempt to keep the engine surfaces clean by attacking sludge and breaking them up. Detergents are not designed to desludge or de-carbon a neglected engine.
HC solvents generally emulsify carbons which go into the oil as well.
Among other things, yes, it is.
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=chem&id=178
definition: This is a mixture of saturated aliphatic and alicyclic hydrocarbons (C7-C12) and aromatic hydrocarbons (C7-C12). May contain benzene (see ICSC 0015) but modern Stoddard solvents usually contain little or no benzene.
undummy is right....MMO is NOT stoddard solvent. It *HAS* stoddard solvent in it, but it ISN'T stoddard solvent ![[No no]](/forums/graemlins/nono.gif)
Coke has water in it, but it isn't water...get it? ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
Coke has water in it, but it isn't water...get it? I have a very old gallon of Parks paint thinner, on the label it lists mineral spirits and stoddard solvent.
quote:Oh puleez. Thanks for the lesson in semantics.
Originally posted by Vstrom: undummy is right....MMO is NOT stoddard solvent. It *HAS* stoddard solvent in it, but it ISN'T stoddard solvent
You may want to change your analogy. The MSDS warns of stoddard solvent. It hasn't reacted into anything else. It's still there.Concerning the seals, it depends of the type of seal material. Most seals are compatible with any fuel or oil that they will normally come in contact with. Also, concentration of whatever chemical needs to be high enough.
Its funny how the anti-MMO crowd is. Semantics, more of that is available from other products that have no available info, and from people here slamming the OTC products every chance they get.
BrianWC made a FALSE statement. MMO is not stoddard solvent. Thanks for proving it with the MSDS. It has stoddard solvent in it. But, it is not stoddard solvent. It is, by the above MSDS, 70-80% base oil. Puleez reread your MSDS.
And, you don't know how it is "reacted" with its base oils and whatever other components, mixing, blending.... that occurs, do you? MSDS doesn't tell you that info, does it? So, stating that it hasn't 'reacted' is a bogus argument. Maybe it has.
And, I won't make the false statement that Marvel's solvent and base oils are secretly blended and will synergistically enhance your motor oil.........and all that fancy marketing terminology that small minded people need to be convinced to purchase something! If you don't like it, don't use it. Don't make FALSE statements concerning it!
But, I will say. It works great as an UCL and as an cleaner. And, I've never seen any damage caused by MMO even when used in excessive doses.
unDummy why don't you admit you're wrong instead of making yourself look silly? I did not mean to imply MMO was all stoddard solvent. If you were not aware there was stoddard solvent IN mmo, don't play it off on me. ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif)
As for damaging seals, if you think it's going to be completely harmless on seals, go ahead. But there's no special property of MMO that's different than any other petroleum distillate/aromatic-based solvent.
'Course I know you don't think there is anyway harmful in these anyway, so.... ![[I dont know]](/forums/graemlins/dunno.gif)
I brought this thread back to life just b/c I saw there was some question as to what Varsol as. I was just pointing out Varsol is stoddard solvent and that MMO HAS stoddard solvent. If you want to get your jollies by trying to make a big deal about the way I said it, go ahead. You're cool. ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif)
![[LOL!]](/forums/graemlins/lol.gif)
As for damaging seals, if you think it's going to be completely harmless on seals, go ahead. But there's no special property of MMO that's different than any other petroleum distillate/aromatic-based solvent.
'Course I know you don't think there is anyway harmful in these anyway, so....
I brought this thread back to life just b/c I saw there was some question as to what Varsol as. I was just pointing out Varsol is stoddard solvent and that MMO HAS stoddard solvent. If you want to get your jollies by trying to make a big deal about the way I said it, go ahead. You're cool. quote:Just imply?
Originally posted by BrianWC: ... Hmmm, MMO is stoddard solvent.
![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon}
Yeah, I'm wrong
quote:And you proved this how?? My engine seals(and most newer vehicles) aren't threathened by solvents. If they weren't, I probably would also be afraid of the fuel I'm using and the oil too. http://www.pspglobal.com/fluid-compatibility/chemicals-s.html
Originally posted by BrianWC: But there's no special property of MMO that's different than any other petroleum distillate/aromatic-based solvent.
Okay, would you like me to go back through all your threads and search for grammatical errors? Please. I hope you grammatical genuises have never said "Mobil 1 is PAO." It CONTAINS PAO.
Go correct everyone who says that and see how popular you get.
Special property of MMO? Yeah, you're right, it DOES have a special property when all its components act synergistically. It's tooo weak to do anything. Really. MMO is a waste of money. If you wanna think there's some magical fairy dust in it that makes it better than the sum of its parts, go ahead. WAIT, there IS a special property of MMO! Minty smell!
Look, I know you don't think that these solvents will do anything to seals. I'm right there with you most of the way. I didn't bring this thread back to pick on MMO. The only thing I worry about is boundary lubrication. I know msds's don't show everything but we all know what is in these things. Go to the hardware store and you can buy most of this stuff mix it up yourself. It's what I do for my chemtool fix these days. Toluene, xylene, acetone, methanol...Why pay big bucks for that stuff?
Now back to it. You've got a lot of searching to do. ![[Happy]](/forums/graemlins/fruit.gif)
I hope you grammatical genuises have never said "Mobil 1 is PAO." It CONTAINS PAO.
Go correct everyone who says that and see how popular you get.
Special property of MMO? Yeah, you're right, it DOES have a special property when all its components act synergistically. It's tooo weak to do anything. Really. MMO is a waste of money. If you wanna think there's some magical fairy dust in it that makes it better than the sum of its parts, go ahead. WAIT, there IS a special property of MMO! Minty smell!
Look, I know you don't think that these solvents will do anything to seals. I'm right there with you most of the way. I didn't bring this thread back to pick on MMO. The only thing I worry about is boundary lubrication. I know msds's don't show everything but we all know what is in these things. Go to the hardware store and you can buy most of this stuff mix it up yourself. It's what I do for my chemtool fix these days. Toluene, xylene, acetone, methanol...Why pay big bucks for that stuff?
Now back to it. You've got a lot of searching to do. - Status
