Oil conundrum-how important is the zinc levels for the 259(?) oilhead-95 R1100 GS ?

[two-up]

BMW is on record as specifying 1200ppm zinc being required for the first oil heads and the BMW branded oil was made by Spectro for over 30 years- I am told- with the requirements in place. I can find oils with much higher levels Mobile 1 V-Twin/Amsoil V-Twin and various racing formulations and oils with much lower levels; nearly all others.

One full synthetic, Mobil 1 15-50 and 20-50 seems to hit the zinc numbers nearly right on but I am hesitant to give it a try until I get info.

I can purchase Spectro which continues to offer two products which are still 'exactly the same' as the BMW specs either in Golden semi or Platinum 15/20-50 but 'good' pricing is either $15.00 for the blend or $20.00 for the full syn. This translates into a wallet busting diy change just slightly north of a c note, which is a bit hard for me to take and of course I wish to get the price down as much as possible depending on the risk, if any.

A tech service rep of a very popular brand stated that the improvements in additives since '95 have rendered the need for any required zinc levels moot.....

Thoughts/advice much appreciated.

 

[kschachn]

Why not use an oil with the BMW approval or a successor to what is called out in the owner's manual?

Approvals are a lot more than just ZDDP level.

 

[kschachn]

A tech service rep of a very popular brand stated that the improvements in additives since '95 have rendered the need for any required zinc levels moot.....

No. ZDDP is still the cornerstone of nearly every fully-formulated motor oil. However, the level required is not what some imagine it to be.

 

[two-up]

Appreciate the replies-with the exception of Spectro I have found no oil which states it is approved for BMW-the spinning propeller 'trifecta': viscosity/zinc and dry clutch. Looks like I'll bite the bullet and pick up about $100.00 usd of Spectro while I do more research.

Loud valves save lives.

 

[weasley]

Why not use an oil with the BMW approval or a successor to what is called out in the owner's manual?

Approvals are a lot more than just ZDDP level.

BMW Motorrad do not issue any oil approvals.

 

[kschachn]

BMW Motorrad do not issue any oil approvals.

Well then the specification? As succeeded. Surely you’re not supposed to go by ZDDP level.

 

[EvoMan]

Why not take a sample of the Spectro and send it out for a VOA? Once you get it back you can compare it to other VOA’s that folks have posted and see what other oils are similar.

 

[CCI]

BMW is on record as specifying 1200ppm zinc being required for the first oil heads and the BMW branded oil was made by Spectro for over 30 years- I am told- with the requirements in place. I can find oils with much higher levels Mobile 1 V-Twin/Amsoil V-Twin and various racing formulations and oils with much lower levels; nearly all others.

One full synthetic, Mobil 1 15-50 and 20-50 seems to hit the zinc numbers nearly right on but I am hesitant to give it a try until I get info.

I can purchase Spectro which continues to offer two products which are still 'exactly the same' as the BMW specs either in Golden semi or Platinum 15/20-50 but 'good' pricing is either $15.00 for the blend or $20.00 for the full syn. This translates into a wallet busting diy change just slightly north of a c note, which is a bit hard for me to take and of course I wish to get the price down as much as possible depending on the risk, if any.

A tech service rep of a very popular brand stated that the improvements in additives since '95 have rendered the need for any required zinc levels moot.....

Thoughts/advice much appreciated.

FWIW I ran the Mobil1 V-Twin formulation in an R1200GS under punishing conditions and it held up just fine.

Mobil 1™ V-Twin 20W-50 motorcycle oil | Mobil™ Motor Oils

Mobil 1™ V-Twin 20W-50 motorcycle oil is formulated to offer outstanding protection in four-cycle, V-Twin type engines –particularly those that are air-cooled.

www.mobil.com

 

[two-up]

Couldn't decide if the nearly 50% greater zinc content of the V-Twin juice could be an issue in general or with our riding style-almost always two-up and slow on the paper roads way up Nord-where permitted of course.

 

[two-up]

By the way, very few people realize just how unique the very early GS' are in general and the '95 in particular-

The '95 was the FIRST (we were told) production bike with: no frame-full electronic engine management, a three way cat and abs and I believe the first with cross laced spoke wheels to enable the use of tubeless tires. It took over two years to go past or be passed by another and even then it was at the International Rally when it was held in NY shortly after we got the bike.

 

[two-up]

and all for just under 13 large, including a Corbin Seat and a top case with the wide luggage.

 

[weasley]

Well then the specification? As succeeded. Surely you’re not supposed to go by ZDDP level.

Agreed - zinc level, or ZDDP level, is never mentioned in oil selection requirements. I'd guess they specify an API, SAE and possibly JASO requirement (that's what my BMW motorcycle needs).

 

[hank2]

I would think that the early oilhead would have the same high ZDDP requirement as the earlier Airhead Beemers. Partially oil cooled but still needing the final line of defense. I campaigned a '72 Airhead for many years and exclusively used Spectro. They once had a conventional oil but I used mostly Golden Spectro blend 20W50. Up until approximately 10 years ago, it's what was in a bottle of BMW branded oil. A local dealer sold it at a very good price. I'm convinced it saved me on several occasions. Like trying to exit a racetrack parking lot on a hot night along with 10k other motorcyclists.

It slipped my memory but didn't the oilhead have a separate divorced transmission with its own sump of gear oil and dry plate clutch? Like the airheads. If I'm correct, all the wet clutch needs are out the window.

 

[two-up]

BMW still continues to do it the proper way, the transmission and final drive have their own lube.

As a heads up: if you like auto auctions Mecum Houston is the 13/15 April, you can register and watch it streamed near real time its a hoot seeing what some can and do pay.........

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Thoughts/advice much appreciated.

Understanding the additive ZDDP / zinc...

Zinc is used/sacrificed in very small quantities at time, so the total
amount present in your oil does not change how much wear protection
the oil provides, as long as you don’t run out of zinc. “Lab Testing”
and “Wear Testing” analysis proves/confirms that more zinc provides
LONGER wear protection, NOT MORE wear protection.

Zinc is not even a lubricant until heat and load are applied. Zinc is
only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine.
At that point zinc must react with the heat and load to create the
sacrificial film that allows it to protect flat-tappet camshafts and
other highly loaded engine parts.

In our stock engines the majority of zinc is drained away during the
oil change... Just compare your Virgin oil samples versus Used oil
samples to establish the zinc sacrificial rate for your engine...

If you start with 1200 ppm zinc and you used oil samples shows
1100 remaining then 100 ppm was sacrificed... if you start with 1200
ppm and used oil sample shows 100 ppm remaining them 1100 ppm was
sacrificed... Even at 100 ppm zinc is still ready to be sacrificed and
thus your engine is protected...

Experts agree higher zinc provides LONGER wear protection, NOT MORE wear protection.
In fact they warn against running too much zinc...

1. Well known and respected Engineer and Tech Author David Vizard,
whose own test data, largely based on real world engine dyno testing,
has concluded that more zinc in motor oil can be damaging, more zinc
does NOT provide todays best wear protection, and that using zinc as
the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.

2. The GM Oil Report titled, Oil Myths from GM Techlink, concluded
that high levels of zinc are damaging and that more zinc does NOT
provide more wear protection.

3. A motor oil research article written by Ed Hackett titled, More
than you ever wanted to know about Motor Oil, concluded that more
zinc does NOT provide more wear protection, it only provides longer
wear protection.

4. This from the Brad Penn Oil Company: There is such a thing as too
much ZDDP. ZDDP is surface aggressive, and too much can be a
detriment. ZDDP fights for the surface, blocking other additive
performance. Acids generated due to excessive ZDDP contact will
tie-up detergents thus encouraging corrosive wear. ZDDP
effectiveness plateaus, more does NOT translate into more protection.
Only so much is utilized. We dont need to saturate our oil with ZDDP.

 

[two-up]

Interesting, thanks-we could be reasonably certain that a motorcycle application was not the subject for the comments above ?-how much then is too much for a classic bike with a cat ?? and what types of variables would have pushed the engineers in the Fatherland to spec a 1200 ppm oil ???

 

[two-up]

AND, whats up with no one making a full synthetic or even semi GL 5 80/90 gear lube for bikes-is the word -hypoid- the reason ?

 

[Overfill]

AND, whats up with no one making a full synthetic or even semi GL 5 80/90 gear lube for bikes-is the word -hypoid- the reason ?

GL-5 gear lube has a level of EP performance that hypoid gears need.
Gear oil made with synthetic base stocks, blended to a 90 weight will perform with a cold performance of 75W weight (lower/colder than 80W) without needing viscosity improvers. When advertised and sold as a multigrade gear oil, it must be sold under the coldest performance it meets, therefore they get sold as "75W-90."

Differentials are typically hypoid gears, and require GL-5 level
Transmissions typically don't have hypoid gears, and only need GL-4 level
What does your bike have, and what does your owner's manual say it needs?

@MotoTribologist is there even such a thing as "Motorcycle Gear Lube/Oil"? I've never heard of such. It'd be a tiny niche, but I learn something new every day.

 

[SuperSalad]

@MotoTribologist is there even such a thing as "Motorcycle Gear Lube/Oil"? I've never heard of such. It'd be a tiny niche, but I learn something new every day.

Yeah, but I wouldn't expect it to be really any different than an automotive GL-5. Being a moto specific, they might not be so determined to keep cost low, so maybe it'll have a bit pricier base oils, but in a hypoid gear oil even having better base oil isn't going to do much: little oxidation, little to no outside contamination/moisture. In my experience differential oils last a loooooong time no matter the ingredient makeup. As long as it meets GL-5 it's good to go.

The motorcycle specific transmission oils can vary for sure in terms of performance. The straight GL-5 gear oils though; probably not a huge difference one form the other.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Interesting, thanks-we could be reasonably certain that a motorcycle application was not the subject for the comments above ?-how much then is too much for a classic bike with a cat ?? and what types of variables would have pushed the engineers in the Fatherland to spec a 1200 ppm oil ???

You're welcome... the 1995 1200 ppm ZDDP spec was based on passenger cars needs when tracking the evolution of anti wear additives... the up to date ZDDP level is 700 to 800 ppm because more zinc does NOT provide more wear protection, it only provides longer protection so our prized bikes are still meeting and exceeding our mileage expectations...