oil consumption problem in a 2000 honda prelude type SH

Messages
6
Location
San Francisco
Hi all, I have been visiting this board for a few weeks and I find the information shared by members of this forum to be very helpful and informative. This is my first time posting so please be patient with me [Cheers!] I own a 2000 honda prelude type SH which was bought brand new. Now the car has about 53,000 miles on it. This car has been on mobil 1 with mobil 1 filter ever since it rolled 10,000miles (with the exception of using redline 10w40 for about 7000miles when it had about 40,000 miles on it). The problem I have with this car is that it uses about 1 quart of mobil1 oil every 1000-1500 miles. I think this is considered high oil consumption. However, the dealer said the otherwise; they said 1quart per 1000miles is considered normal [Confused] The dealer even gave me an official print out from Honda proving that rate of consumption is normal. So now, I need your help in choosing an oil that could help to reduce this oil consumption problem, while still offering excellent protection for the engine. As I mentioned before, I tried redline 10w40 for about 7000miles to see if it helps. The redline did not help, my car still burned 1quart of it in 1000miles. I just read the topic about mobil delvac 1. But seems like delvac 1 is for diesel engines according to mobil's website, will it work in a gasoline engine? Any suggestions are welcomed. Thanks in advance for your help [Cheers!] By the way, the car is stock and is in need of replacing a dented rear bumper, a stolen rear honda badge, and a stolen pair of side corner lens [Mad]
 
Messages
324
Location
California
[Welcome!] I think that 1-1.5 quarts of oil per 1-1.5k is way to much especially for honda engine. How do you drive the car? Since you live in SF, I assume it gets driven pretty hard. I would recommend Redline 10w-30 or 10w-40, but since you already tried it without any luck... You can try amsoil 5/10w-30, but I doubt it will help. I think that you should just stick with mobil 1 10w-30 and leave it alone. In your case with such high consumption I would do oil changes every 8k miles. I think that 10k - 12k miles would be fine as well if you change filter every 5-6k miles. In 8k miles oil change case I don't think that you should be worried about changing a filter, especially a good one like Mobil. Regards,
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,990
Location
Oakville, Ontario
As much as it sucks to own a car that burns this much oil, it does seem to be very common in this particular engine. One of our members here (Quick_Lude) who has one has tried out a few different oils and has had no success in lowering his consumption, which I believe is about the same level as yours.
 
Messages
401
Location
Southcentral PA
Keep using synthetic. M1 is great. Keep checking the oil and adding as necessary. Don't worry about consumption, it's not a "problem." Keep track of usage just in case. Honda's engines with FRM cylinder are known to consume oil more than usual. My S2000 has this type of cylinder liner also. My consumption is more like 1/2 quart or so every 1000 miles when driven hard. There are others who consume as much as you do and it's not a "problem." Relax, enjoy your car, and don't play around with different viscosities (use what the owner's manual says) and stay away from oil treatment additives. [ September 20, 2003, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: S2000driver ]
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
I agree with Pablo about at least trying a treatment of Auto-Rx!! If 10W40 Redline did not slow consumption down then no oil will. Redline his the least volitility and highest flash point of any oil I know in the U.S.! The 10W40 is also rather thick! It sounds like you have dirty hardened valve seals or your ring pack area is gummed up. I would doubt that 7000 mile oil changes with M1 would have the ring pack area this gumed up after 50,000 miles! THe other possabilities seem unlikely but the onlyother thing besides seals and gummed up rings is badly worn oil control ring. Have you already done compression check and vaccum check to see how the engine and it's componets are doing? Seeing how RL10W40 did not do it for you you might as well stick with M1. I would try 15W50 if you live in a warm climate.
 
Messages
950
Location
Loveland, Ohio
Just curious - what is FRM cylinder? As to the oil consumption, you didn't say when it began? Has it always used this much oil? I have a PT Cruiser that has used about the same amount as your car and the dealer says it is normal. I am not surprised that such a high reving engine uses oil, I am more surprised at people who say their engines don't use any oil. They (dealers) all seem to subscribe to the "up to 1 Qt. per 1000 miles is normal".... It seems to me that an engine should burn some oil, the question is how much. If oil rings could scrape all oil off the cylinder walls, then you'd think there would be wear going on?
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
My new car has almost 4000 mile on it and over 3000 on the oil and has not burnt a drop. My 97 Lasaber also does not burn a any oil and it has something like 120,000 miles on it. I drive them both like i just stole them once they warm up!
 
Messages
10,511
Location
Jupiter, Florida
That is typical of those Honda engines. Consider this, the oil's additives are kept up by the constant addition of oil. In the past, I had a certain japanese car that responded to Castrol Syntec 5-50 (yes, yes I know it is only a group 3 oil). However the use of Syntec reduced the oil consumption to nil. Chris
 
Messages
1,533
Location
Ephraim
quote:
Originally posted by james168: ---**-- The dealer even gave me an official print out from Honda proving that rate of consumption is normal. So now, I need your help in choosing an oil that could help to reduce this oil consumption problem, while still offering excellent protection for the engine. ---**---
Hey if the Dealer backs what he says in written form, I'd not Worry. Nut. Yes, I'm one too, and yes I'd still try to lower my burn rate too. I use a different oil but from what I've heard here and other places I'd try one of Bob's oils with lots of MOLY. What you may want to do is Yes try Delvac or Delo and see if they help any, and yes I'd try them with the RX treatment or a additive/cleaner like neutra, that cleans slower, then run one or two oil changes or perhaps 3-4 changes with Bob's oil (HIGH in MOLY)and see if that helps, If not you can always go back to what you have now. But I do know from 1st had experience of hard knocks, it's always better to reduce the burn as much as you can. If the Treatments don't help other than to clean the engine - well no loss. If Bob's oil doesnt help - oh well you can share the info. BUT what you may find is that you may be able to lower the burn and maybe increase MPG by cleaning and using an oil higher in Moly. My truck when new BURNED a lot, and it took me 26K to get it where I thought was somewhat okay, and after using may oils, it was the Higher Moly oils that did in fact almost totally STOP the burn. In my case it's partly the way I use my truck, but I've had other trucks that did burn when I got them and after some (2-3-4) oil changes of High Moly, it was greatly reduced. I'd give it a shot, you can have some fun, and maybe get better MPG, etc. But if you do, Keep some records so you can compare.
 
Messages
22,188
Location
Colorado Springs
Honda DOHC VTEC engines consume more oil than other engines. Honda went a bit looser on ring gap etc., as you need a wee bit of oil to lubricate a cylinder that spends a good portion of it's life over 5,000 rpm. Same with the valve stems. I've known literally 50 people with DOHC VTEC engines, even a couple H22s, and it was just a normal thing to be down on oil. Just drive it like you stole it, and it will be happy [Smile]
 

james168

Thread starter
Messages
6
Location
San Francisco
Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate your cooments. --My new car has almost 4000 mile on it and over 3000 on the oil and has not burnt a drop. My 97 Lasaber also does not burn a any oil and it has something like 120,000 miles on it. I drive them both like i just stole them once they warm up!-- I wish my car is as lucky as your cars! --I agree with Pablo about at least trying a treatment of Auto-Rx!!-- Thanks for the suggestion. I will read up more about Auto-Rx, but it does sound like a good product as advertised on auto-rx.com --Have you already done compression check and vaccum check to see how the engine and it's componets are doing?-- I have not done those checkups for my car yet, but the engine still feels about the same as when it was new... minus the extra ticking noise here and there... However, I will find time to have a mechanic to do those tests to see if the compression is still within spec. --As to the oil consumption, you didn't say when it began? Has it always used this much oil?-- I first noticed this problem when I checked the oil at 2000miles. The oil at that time was still the original factory oil shipped with the car, which I didn't change until 3000miles... hopefully that wasn't too late (or too early) [I dont know] Anyway, at 2000miles, the oil level was about 1/3 of an inch below the second hole on the dipstick, which is about 1.3 or so quart short. I added regular 5w30 oil promptly. So I assume that this consumption "problem" was from day1. --What you may want to do is Yes try Delvac or Delo and see if they help any, and yes I'd try them with the RX treatment or a additive/cleaner like neutra, that cleans slower, then run one or two oil changes or perhaps 3-4 changes with Bob's oil (HIGH in MOLY)and see if that helps, If not you can always go back to what you have now.-- Sorry for being a newbie, what is Bob's oil? I ran a search but didn't find an explanation for it, maybe I did't look hard enough. I read a little about moly oils from this site, and moly does sound like great protection for the engine. I heard that redline oils are high in moly. I might try to redline again, b/c they are available in a performance store locally for only $5.99 per quart. --I've known literally 50 people with DOHC VTEC engines, even a couple H22s, and it was just a normal thing to be down on oil. Just drive it like you stole it, and it will be happy-- --Keep using synthetic. M1 is great. Keep checking the oil and adding as necessary. Don't worry about consumption, it's not a "problem." Keep track of usage just in case. Honda's engines with FRM cylinder are known to consume oil more than usual. My S2000 has this type of cylinder liner also. My consumption is more like 1/2 quart or so every 1000 miles when driven hard.-- Thanks for the reassurance guys! While it does become expensive adding in 1quart of M1 ever so often, it is still relatively cheap compared to today's 91-92 octane gas. [Cool]
 
Messages
22,188
Location
Colorado Springs
People call Schaffer oil "Bobzoil" because Bob, aka Bobistheoilguy, is a major distributor of Schaffer oil. It's darn good stuff. Also, to offset the cost of oil in your car, run 1000 miles longer, or even more, between oil changes, especially with mobil 1. Frequent top offs will restore additives etc.
 
Messages
605
Location
Mississauga, Ontario
H22a's burn oil, period. The only question is how much.. [Frown] Personally when I was using Mobil 1 5w30 TriSynth the engine consumed 2L per 5000 km or 2quarts/3,000 miles. After I switched to M1 0w40 SuperSyn my consumption was cut in half to 2 quarts/6,000 miles. Honda dealers in Canada will not give you a new shortblock unless the engine burns over 1L/1500 km. A few of our club members did get a new shortblock after doing an oil consumption test. Personally I think 1L/1000km is a ridiculous limit.. no engine should be consuming that much oil.
 

CJH

Messages
489
Location
Pennsylvania
I suggest you TRY either the Delvac 1 or Shell Rotella T 5W40 Synthetic (you can buy the Shell at Wal*Mart). These are "fleet" oils that are suitable for both diesel and gasonlne engines. The Shell DRAMATICALLY cut consumption in my Lumina. Why not give it a try? If it doesnt help, you can always switch back.
quote:
Originally posted by james168: Hi all, I have been visiting this board for a few weeks and I find the information shared by members of this forum to be very helpful and informative. This is my first time posting so please be patient with me [Cheers!] I own a 2000 honda prelude type SH which was bought brand new. Now the car has about 53,000 miles on it. This car has been on mobil 1 with mobil 1 filter ever since it rolled 10,000miles (with the exception of using redline 10w40 for about 7000miles when it had about 40,000 miles on it). The problem I have with this car is that it uses about 1 quart of mobil1 oil every 1000-1500 miles. I think this is considered high oil consumption. However, the dealer said the otherwise; they said 1quart per 1000miles is considered normal [Confused] The dealer even gave me an official print out from Honda proving that rate of consumption is normal. So now, I need your help in choosing an oil that could help to reduce this oil consumption problem, while still offering excellent protection for the engine. As I mentioned before, I tried redline 10w40 for about 7000miles to see if it helps. The redline did not help, my car still burned 1quart of it in 1000miles. I just read the topic about mobil delvac 1. But seems like delvac 1 is for diesel engines according to mobil's website, will it work in a gasoline engine? Any suggestions are welcomed. Thanks in advance for your help [Cheers!] By the way, the car is stock and is in need of replacing a dented rear bumper, a stolen rear honda badge, and a stolen pair of side corner lens [Mad]
 
Messages
401
Location
Southcentral PA
quote:
Originally posted by John K: Just curious - what is FRM cylinder?
Fiber Reinforced Matrix In and aluminum block, it's a way to get tight cylinder centerline spacing, excellent heat transfer, and competitive wear without iron cylinder liners. It's been in practice for over a dozen years now at Honda, starting with the NSX, then including the Prelude and S2000. Unlike Chevrolet's Vega, the oil consumption is not from terminal wear. It stabilizes at the type of level described. From what I've read about the oil consumption issue, the FRM walls tend to be a little less smoothly "polished" than iron liners, and retain slightly more oil on their surface after being wiped by the rings. Not a bad thing in my opinion. A fiber-based material in the form of cylinder sleeve is first inserted to the die of the block. Melted liquid aluminium is poured into the die and integrate with the fiber sleeve. Then the cylinder wall is machined to the desire bore dimension, leaving only 0.5 mm thickness to the fiber sleeve which covers the cylinder wall. It generates lower friction than iron liner, thus improves rev and power. Moreover, the fiber sleeve reinforces the block, allowing the distance between adjacent bores to be reduced yet maintain mechanical strength. [ September 21, 2003, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: S2000driver ]
 
Messages
353
Location
somewhere in Jersey
What grade of M1 do you use?I don't thik the Auto-Rx will be of any help if this is a design issue -only thicker oil will. Maybe the M1 15W50 will slow down the consumption and could possibly used in SF Bay year round or mix it with 0W40 if using in cold(er)area.Another option is Castrol 5W50 Syntec as mentioned above.
 
Messages
401
Location
Southcentral PA
My opinion is that it's worse to use a higher viscosity oil than recommended in the owners manual, than it is to use the thinner oil recommended and have to add more often. I have the feeling many of the recommendations for higher viscosity and/or oil additives come from those who are not familiar with your engine's special attributes, which can be negatively affected by the use of such. Which include: *Oil-pressure activated VTEC system, *High RPM DOHC valvetrain, *Relatively tight tolerances, *Oil-spraying on the underside of pistons, *Special bearing coating to hold a thicker film of oil at the specified viscosity. [ September 21, 2003, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: S2000driver ]
 
Messages
50
Location
vancouver,wa.
HI...THIS MIGHT HELP OR NOT,HAD A MARK VII ONCE,USED A DIFFERENT FILTER ONE TIME,AND STARTED TO USE A QUART EVERY TWO HUNDRED MILES,DEALER CHANGED OUT OIL AND FILTER BACK TO NORMAL,TRY A DIFFERENT FILTER,GOOD LUCK.ADRIAN sorry about cap's [ September 21, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: ajax ]
 

CJH

Messages
489
Location
Pennsylvania
quote:
Originally posted by S2000driver: My opinion is that it's worse to use a higher viscosity oil than recommended in the owners manual, than it is to use the thinner oil recommended and have to add more often. I have the feeling many of the recommendations for higher viscosity and/or oil additives come from those who are not familiar with your engine's special attributes, which can be negatively affected by the use of such. Which include: *Oil-pressure activated VTEC system, *High RPM DOHC valvetrain, *Relatively tight tolerances, *Oil-spraying on the underside of pistons, *Special bearing coating to hold a thicker film of oil at the specified viscosity.
Your reasoning doesn't make sense to me. Would like to hear what others think. I believe all cars can use a grade higher with no adverse effects (in the proper climate) and, if your car is using oil, enjoy some beneficial effects. If your car is consuming a significant amount of oil, deposits tend to accumulate in your combustion chamber and on your spark plugs. Except for the most extreme cases, the catalytic converter takes care of the smoke, but what effect do you think this has on the catalytic converter? Of course it shortens its life and effectiveness. Using a grade thicker oil resolves these problems, at least to a degree. I have read of a number of people using 15W50 oil in their Honda Vtecs with no adverse effects, although I am not recommending it. If thicker oil caused problems with your Vtec system of engine, then you would have problems as soon as you started it, because the cold oil is WAY more viscous than warm 30W oil is when it is hot. If you look at the UOAs on here, you will see it is very common for oils to thin or thicken one grade during normal use. Hondas sold in Japan with the same relatively tight tolerances recommend higher viscosities. Your oil has probably thickened to a 40W during use, your Vtec is working fine in your relatively tight toleranced engine and you dont even know it! BTW, I have been running XW40 oils in my 1997 Lumina (GM recommends XW30) for the past 20,000 miles and have not seen any kind of an adverse effect, nor would I expect any. I dont think treatments like AutoRx aare going to help much in your case, because oil consumption is inherent in the engine design. [ September 21, 2003, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: CJH ]
 
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