Oil choice causing sounds of friction ....

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quote:

Originally posted by Titan:
Maybe thinner oil is able to better squeeze through the slowly clogging oilways, therefore lubricating better?

Hope this isn't the case either, but anything's possible I guess.

Just sounds odd that it would be developing clogged oil ways with every 3k OCI's since 11k miles with Havoline oil nonetheless.

And then still, it wouldn't make sense either, for a 10w-40 to be fine.

Who knows. Thanks for all the input guys.

When the OCI is due, I'll throw in MC and see where it goes from there.
 
Ignore the man behind that currtain!! (ignore my first post- I was being funny - a crippling affliction
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Ramblin, you've got some interesting conditions there. I can't hear your noise ...so it's hard to say.

You indicate that this goes away ..or rather gets reduced after a few days with a 40 weight (Rotella 5w-40)

You indicate that the sound decreases with mileage. Now I've seen this happen it's almost always been HLA/lifter noise ....which you've ruled out already.

In my warped mind's eye ..I would go in radical polarities with viscosity. Now you say that viscosity isn't the determining factor ..but not all 30 weights are created equal in viscosity.

Right now, my money is on the visc being too high. This is the only thing that should be getting reduced in that short an OCI.

This you will know with the 15w-40. If the sound is WORSE with this oil then it was with Rotella synth ...then you know that the Rotella produced less noise due to being a synth ..and not a 40 weight ..and that some mechanism/process further reduced its viscosity in a short time ...just as it does for your dino 30 weights.

You mentioned that the 5w-30 was the loudest ..but you also indicated that it was use in the winter. Does that mean that your 10w-30 was used in the warmer months ..and that you DID NOT use the 5w-30 in warmer months?? This could be the difference in your perception, if you see what I mean
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If it was my ride ..and I didn't mind potentially wasting some good oil if it didn't work out, I'd throw in some MC 5w-20 and see if the condition is relieved. If it went away ..then it's a weakening oil pump. It may give good indicated pressure at the filter ..but cannot produce the "head" to reach everything until it's thinner.

Any UOA's on this engine/vehicle?? That would probably show the mechanism that is allowing this noise to reduce as you approach the end of the OCI. My money is on some shearing/dilution effect.
 
quote:

The uoa's that I've had done, show incredible numbers for an engine with 155k miles.

If it were "friction" wouldn't it show up in the UOA numbers? If parts are abnormally rubbing they should be shedding something that would be picked up in the UOA. Especially after 2 years.
 
I THINK there can be several causes of higher engine non-combustion related noise. Some oils seem inherently quieter in some vehicles...maybe it's the way the oil splatters/coats the valve covers, etc. I doubt that this type of noise is related to wear of parts. There would be the noise due to inadequate flow due to too thick oil, such as startup ticks, cold ticks. There would be noise that occurs when starvation is occurring, such as air in the sump from low oil levels (exacerbated from high lateral G-forces, etc.), which is really bad. Likewise, noise due to inadequate oil pressure from a bad oil pump, clogged pickup screen, clogged oil passageways, or worn parts, these are all bad.

SO, what I'm trying to say is that IF the 10-40 is an inherently quiet oil in your engine, it could be that it is simply masking the noise that shows up with many other relatively thick oils, and you could still be having an oil flow problem due to obstruction, etc. that is only rectified when a thin enough oil is used that allows sufficient flow past the obstruction to quieten the cause of the noise.

Just guesses...hope you get it figured out satisfaction soon!
 
Ok, question, seeing as GC 0w-30 has been the only synthetic I've tried in this engine - and discovered it didn't like it; do you think that I should try other synthetics??

I believe, at some point, that I did try Havoline synethic 5w-30 as well as 5w-40 at some point in the last 2yrs. I don't recall either of them being of good pleasure, or else I would've stacked up.

I do know however, that Havoline is not a true synthetic.

What other oils can you all suggest - that would be least likely to reveal a troublesome gasket??

My camshaft/crankshaft seals are new, came with new timing belt package, however rear main is original, valve cover gaskets are slightly weeping as we speak, and would like to avoid oil leaks in general.

I know synthetic doesn't CAUSE leaks, but I know it can reveal weak seals.
 
IMO stick with the Havoline and run an AutoRX treatment through it. If you have never ARX'ed it, you may have buildup in the rings causing the noise. IMO the Havoline has such a high Moly dose, that it it suppressing it under certain circumstances. ARX will clean it out, and then use whatever you want after that.
 
This may be a strange suggestion, but maybe its not oil related at all. Could it be an accessory that is changing pitch with the slight change in idle speed? In my experience idle speed changes just slightly with actual viscosity of the oil.

If thats not the case, pulling a valve cover (or both) could give you a peek at the internal condtion of the engine. Good time to change the gaskets too. Maybe a little sludge has accumulated and is causing your pain.

Wether the truck has a sludge problem or not, it may help to diagnose the problem with an ester. Since esters have an polarized nature, they may stick to the the metal in question better than conventional oil and changes should be evident. While most people use ARX for a cleaner only, I have the firm belief that as an ester, it provides EP protection to splash lubricated parts as well. Another choice would be Redline.

Just a few considerations that I'd look into...
 
Ok, well, with a few too many vehicles around here lately - trying to fix some issues on my G'ma's Geo metro, Chevy 454 1-ton, and my own '01 Diesel with a tranny leak, I goofed and dumped the oil out of the wrong vehicle.

Meant to change the oil on my '85 Toyota p/up, and CHECK the oil level on the '97 Isuzu. Well, it happened the other way around
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Already had the drain plug out before I realized I'd crawled under the wrong suspension.

So, figured this was the time to try the Motorcraft 5w-20 - it's sitting outside running with it right now, and the noise is MUCH MUCH LOUDER - to the point that I'm wondering if it's too thin?? Have yet to drive with it, a little leary personally.

Any thoughts?? A few of you had mentioned to try it and see where that takes me, not happy at all with the higher increase in noise, but maybe you all have some thoughts??
 
Okay ..now you've established that this is truly viscosity related. You don't have to wonder anymore.

If you're uncomfortable ..drop it out and use it for make up in one of the higher consumption engines. Personally, I can life with valve train clatter at idle (something most with high mileage and HLAs do anyway).

It's your ride. By all means do what feels right about it. I'm more bold in my experiments ..but that's me with my stuff.
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I'm beginning to wonder if this IS what it is?? Valve clatter.

My Toy is a prime example of valve clatter, and IT was to receive the oil change today of Delo 400 15w-40, to shut it up, but the noise off the Rodeo doesn't sound the same.

Ah, who knows - guess I should just give it up, it runs well with or without the noise. But, FWIW, noise is only present at idle, goes away the 2nd a load's put on the engine - so I guess the HLA's are the only thing that makes sense.
 
That would be my first gut reaction SWAG by that description. The only thing that threw a wrench into that was where you figured the source of the noise was located.

FWIW- My HLAs sounded off with everything from 5w-20 to 15w-40. The only thing that shut them up was 20w-50. I just used whatever I felt like since I had guages out the wazoo monitoring the engine. I didn't appear to suffer for using either heavy or light other than around town fuel economy. The lighter oils did produce more HLA noise.
 
Ramblin Fever ,

when you change your oil, do you go by the dipstick to get to the right level or do you only put in the amount specified in the manual.

I had the same problems as you until I reslised that by filling to the dipstick full level I was overfilling the crankcase and the crank was slapping the oil which put air into the oil system which then migrated to the lifters and started the clattering due to the oil not being properly in the hydraulic lifter.

Since only filling to the amount spcified in the manual, the full level is a 1/4 below the full mark on the dipstick and the noises are gone. Runs smooth with not one single noise problem.

[ May 08, 2006, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: BlazerLT ]
 
BlazerLT - I could swear at one time that the noise was softer when, after an oil change I only put in 5 qts - and being the paranoid freekazoid that I am, put in the other .7 qt.

The truck specs (and brings it to the full mark) at 5.7 qts. And seeing how this truck never seems to use any oil, I have never heard it at a 1/2 qt low - unintentionally.

I have the notion, since it doesn't use any oil between oci's, to run it 1/2qt low from the beginning of the next OCI and see what I hear.

Can't really groan about it though, I guess, it's way quieter then other Isuzu's as well as other HLA owners.

I drained about 1/2 of the oil out of the pan this morning, and added almost 3 qts or so of Motorcraft 15w-40 to bring the viscosity up a bit.

Truck's much quieter now - I did not feel comfortable driving it as loud as it was, and the oil pressure was a bit lower then usual after it warmed up.

I'll save the oil and use it in my old push-mower, or for top-ups on my sister's van come winter.
 
Are you consistent about when you listen for this noise? The reason I ask: At the beginning of the first winter I owned my Sundance, it began making this 'friction' noise every day it was cold, and if I drove it long enough it would eventually subside. I drove it to the Dodge dealer down the street and let him listen to it before it warmed up, and he concluded that it was the timing belt making noise before it warmed up and became plyable. Is this a possibility?
 
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