Oil Change Program

Ugly3 · Jan 31, 2005

On the assumption that there is some value in ageing oil, how about this program?

Sump = 5 quarts
OCI = 3000 miles
Use full synthetic oil

Every 3,000 miles drain out 2 quarts and add 2 quarts of fresh oil.

The average oil age is 6,000 miles with the range of 4,500 to 7,500 miles. Well with in the ability of a full synthetic oil.

Change the oil filter at 15,000 miles (like the manual says).

You are now always running with aged oil and the add pack is getting regenerated every 3,000 miles.

How about this for doing the best for your engine?

oilpan49 · Jan 31, 2005

Hmmmmm, interesting. Though everytime I would change the filter every 3000. Might as well do it while your under there and IMO, you can never be too picky about changing filters. Besides a decent one is only a couple of bucks. I do like this idea, very cool

AR

Doug Hillary · Jan 31, 2005

Hi,
this is not unlike a concept being used in the Trucking Industry

A programmed amount is drawn from the sump added to the fuel tank and replaced with fresh oil automatically from a remote container. The normal oil consumption factor of course is automatically compensated for too

Some engines are now being designed with a programmed oil use factor and an on board "oil conditioner" to enable no oil changes. Electronic sensing alerts for fuel dilution or excessive wear metals and etc

This is just the start..............

Regards
Doug

Shannow · Jan 31, 2005

sounds like the system that you can get on Cummins engines for the Dodges.

When "parameter A" hits a limit, some goes to the fuel tank, and some fresh comes in.

Regular filter changes.

Super long OCI

Al · Jan 31, 2005

I know where you are coming from..That article on the supposed benefits to an engine (lower wear metals) because of the used oil.

I have difficulty believing that lower engine wear is occurring. I believe its a blip in wear metal content in the oil related to solubility or some other factor.

This plan looks like a waste of time and effort to me. I would bet serious money that there will be no benefits and in fact there will be negatives. Just an opinion though.

Sounds like changing a babies diaper without wiping his butt.

Matt89 · Jan 31, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Al:
I know where you are coming from..That article on the supposed benefits to an engine (lower wear metals) because of the used oil.

I have difficulty believing that lower engine wear is occurring. I believe its a blip in wear metal content in the oil related to solubility or some other factor.

This plan looks like a waste of time and effort to me. I would bet serious money that there will be no benefits and in fact there will be negatives. Just an opinion though.

Sounds like changing a babies diaper without wiping his butt.

I agree. Unless you've got a lot of time on your hands and not much else to do, I don't see any benefit compared to just draining & changing filter at some reasonable interval.

Ugly3 · Jan 31, 2005

Doug Hillary - this is not unlike a concept being used in the Trucking Industry

You sure know how to hurt a guy, I thought I came up with this one all on my own! Thanks.

427Z06 · Jan 31, 2005

Ugly3, here's a variation on a theme (although similar to Haley10's recipe).

Just change the filter every 3k miles and use LC as prescribed. Between filter changes and top off, that should keep the TBN up, and LC should keep the insolubles in check. Use Supertech filters to keep the costs in check. Prefill filters to avoid dry starts.

haley10 · Jan 31, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:
Ugly3, here's a variation on a theme (although similar to Haley10's recipe).

Just change the filter every 3k miles and use LC as prescribed. Between filter changes and top off, that should keep the TBN up, and LC should keep the insolubles in check. Use Supertech filters to keep the costs in check. Prefill filters to avoid dry starts.

Not to be argumentative, but I see no reason for 3K filter changes and I believe filter efficiency is important (flame suit on). The right filter should get you to 6 mo. or 10K just fine. With a good syn and assuming you added some top-up (1/2 qt.) TBN would still be fine.

At this point you've got your money's worth, but to be bold, change the filter top up and continue on, but I don't. All this assumes LC used.

Super-Tech filters are cheap, but when you change them at 3K intervals?? Justified?

Topping up is going to restore TBN and additives, but won't reduce insolubles. Plus a dirty filter (assuming good flow) is filtering as well or better than new as long as you don't exceed it's capacity and construction life.

I guess my point is that several major syn's have the TBN and additives to go the distance anyway. Only better filter and possibly LC might be the most cost effective and worthwhile approach.

[ February 01, 2005, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: haley10 ]

haley10 · Feb 1, 2005

Ugly3, my view is that with a 5qt. sump gasoline engine, TBN retention is not the major factor in extending drains with a great synthetic. You will be getting some "boost" with top-up oil; probably up to 1/2 qt. in 5K. The TBN will still be strong at that point.

The problem seems to be, keeping insolubles in check. An efficient oil filter and maybe using LC if one wanted to might make the best economics. Then if your good enough to make it to a filter change before an oci is really required, then you get an additional boost from adding the amount in the filter.

427Z06 · Feb 1, 2005

ST filter x 5 = $10
$5/qt x 7.5 = $37.50
Total $47.50

M1 filter x 2 = $24
$5/qt x 5.5 = $27.50
Total $41.50

Top off oil/LC should be a wash.

Follow haley10's method. He's saving you $6 every 15K miles.

Spector · Feb 1, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Airborne Ranger:
you can never be too picky about changing filters. Besides a decent one is only a couple of bucks. I do like this idea, very cool

AR

Useless appendages!! My own experiments with changing them and UOA show me that it makes no difference in the UOA results whether you change it at half way point in OCI or leave it on. (6000 miles vs 12,000 in my case) As a result of Bob's tests and my own experience I have gone with filters that have better flow then filtration, IMO, filters are meaningless in a well operating engine using todays oils. Just my opinion

427Z06 · Feb 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Spector:
IMO, filters are meaningless in a well operating engine using todays oils. Just my opinion

Did you get a particle count with your UOAs?

Spector · Feb 2, 2005

Just insolubles. Even the best filtration like Mobil 1 or Pure Ones may get down to 10 microns aso in a particle count not sure what effect more filtration would have between a 10 and 20 micron filter. And, do these really cause more wear if they are under 10 microns, is it the diff between 100,000 miles and 200,000 or between 150,000 and 250,000 miles. No one knows what effect they have on longevity

haley10 · Feb 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:

quote:

Originally posted by Spector:
IMO, filters are meaningless in a well operating engine using todays oils. Just my opinion

Click to expand...

Did you get a particle count with your UOAs?

Ekpolk and others are getting the particle count #'s which will be interesting. With all due respect, I bet Terry's database would not show that filters are useless and that some may provide better results than others.

I just really don't think Mobil, Purolator and others are taking us to the cleaners on this one.

Probably not a big concern unless you go for the major extended drains, though.

427Z06 · Feb 3, 2005

Guess very few people come to the same conclusion as Bob did after he performed his filter test.

Ugly3 · Feb 3, 2005

The problem is that most people judge a filters effectivness based on a standard UOA which in reality tells you little if anything about the filters performance. Add total particle count and there is something to measure against.

427Z06 · Feb 4, 2005

So getting you to change filters 5 times and doing a particle count is out of the question?

Norm Olt · Feb 4, 2005

"Sounds like changing a babies(sic "'s") diaper without wiping his but."

I actually fell out of my chair when I read this!

Thanks!

Norm

Norm Olt · Feb 4, 2005

Oooops! There are two t's in "butt"...

Oil Change Program

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