Oil Change Intervals 3k vs Longer with full synthetic

[Bill7]

Yep, I bought my 04 Expedition 5.4ls 2v that was elderly owned, oil changed every 3k at dealership and the engine was spotless inside. Nothing wrong with 3k oci at all. On the other hand my 05 Element had stuck rings and cam lobes were covered in heavy varnish by using cheap quick lube oil when the maintenance light came on, 7500 miles.
I do 3-5k (or every 6 months) oci's and will continue to. Like some mentioned it gets you under the vehicle to check for any problems.

Nice plan. I have three 2006-2007 Honda Odyssey EX-L's with the VCM enabled. All have about 160k miles each.

For your Honda Element, you may wish to do the four 5,000 mile OCI with Valvoline R&P.
It might clean up your stuck rings and cam lobe varnish issues.
There is a $5 rebate currently active for Valvoline R&P, so if you buy at Walmart, it's $29.99 - $5 = $24.99 for a 5 quart jug.

 

[tired]

I think OEM's use time as a factor to ensure that oil is getting changed, though 6 months seems nuts, but I believe GM limits it to one year. This is because moisture and fuel can both accumulate in oil and this isn't accounted for in the OLM algorithm.

If, like me, you are getting the vehicle up to temperature, but you don't drive it huge distances regularly, then that issue isn't present, as evidenced by my UOA's. Of course the OEM's can't expect that of the end user, so they do a CYA by mandating a time based interval, irrespective of mileage.

My engines are also port injected and don't meaningfully fuel dilute. If you have a DI mill that's dumping gas in the oil and the vehicle is short tripped a lot and not regularly getting up to operating temperature, getting that oil out of there at least ever 12 months is probably smart, if not sooner.

Thanks. I have a port injected engine and a GDI engine. Honestly during the winter, just pulling the dipstick, the oil reeks of fuel. It’s better now in the spring. Trying to figure out the right answer for my vehicles. Don’t want to waste good oil but also don’t want to develop any unnecessary wear.

 

[ChrisD46]

Thanks. I have a port injected engine and a GDI engine. Honestly during the winter, just pulling the dipstick, the oil reeks of fuel. It’s better now in the spring. Trying to figure out the right answer for my vehicles. Don’t want to waste good oil but also don’t want to develop any unnecessary wear.

With GDI I have settled on no more than 4K miles / 6 months OCI . If short tripping you will hit the 6 month time mark first and in my experience the soot level is turning the oil very dark and fuel dilution will become evident at 6 months , so best to go ahead and change the oil . If you want to pursue a 5K mile OCI be aware there are engines developing dirty ring packs / oil burning run with 5K mile synthetic oil OCI’s surprising their owners .

 

[thetricky]

I'm asking you to show me the financials. Say I own one of the aforementioned Kia/Hyundai products. How much more is it going to cost me to replace it with something perceived to have better reliability? At what point does the decreased maintenance break-even on this more reliable replacement

No, I won't be doing that. Far too many variables and I don't have the time to spell that all out. Now to your point, if one deals with new/newer vehicles and dealers then yes, chances are you are going to take a bath on a trade-in because, well, dealers. On the other hand, if one deals in the private market, chances are better one can come out ahead on a better vehicle because its easier to sell the shiny, pretty things to people. What's with the "perceived" reliability? There are plenty of Brands/Models/Engine Families that have proven themselves over time to be bulletproof, if you or yours needs the latest and greatest well no one can help you there.

Exactly. I think this is a little known and understood fact. Just factoring in depreciation and increased insurance cost, it would be difficult to find a scenario where the newer car is cheaper.

You are basing this on new vehicles, a lot of people aren't buying new because of the exact reasons you mention. If one buys new, rolls it off the lot, then realizes, "oh crap, this thing is terrible and I need 3k OCI's just to postpone an explosion" then that's a hard lesson learned. If one wants a reliable vehicle, then like I mentioned above, they are out there.

 

[tired]

With GDI I have settled on no more than 4K miles / 6 months OCI . If short tripping you will hit the 6 month time mark first and in my experience the soot level is turning the oil very dark and fuel dilution will become evident at 6 months , so best to go ahead and change the oil . If you want to pursue a 5K mile OCI be aware there are engines developing dirty ring packs / oil burning run with 5K mile synthetic oil OCI’s surprising their owners .

Interestingly even on the GDI engine, at 3500 miles, the VRP is still not that dark at all. Slightly dark golden honey color still.

I think I'll just do 6 month changes too. It's not too much to ask to be bothered to crawl under the engine twice a year. And in the Tundra, I don't even need to jack it up. Biggest pain is getting the skid plate and filter off. The Rogue is a very easy oil change. At the very least, it'll ensure I'm not crawling under the car in late February this way.

 

[CarlB]

No, I won't be doing that. Far too many variables and I don't have the time to spell that all out. Now to your point, if one deals with new/newer vehicles and dealers then yes, chances are you are going to take a bath on a trade-in because, well, dealers. On the other hand, if one deals in the private market, chances are better one can come out ahead on a better vehicle because its easier to sell the shiny, pretty things to people. What's with the "perceived" reliability? There are plenty of Brands/Models/Engine Families that have proven themselves over time to be bulletproof, if you or yours needs the latest and greatest well no one can help you there.


You are basing this on new vehicles, a lot of people aren't buying new because of the exact reasons you mention. If one buys new, rolls it off the lot, then realizes, "oh crap, this thing is terrible and I need 3k OCI's just to postpone an explosion" then that's a hard lesson learned. If one wants a reliable vehicle, then like I mentioned above, they are out there.

I'd never buy a new vehicle.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I'm late to this party... but the old school way of thinking can get you in trouble. The lowest wear rates will occur when the oil is used to its max service life, whatever condemnation point that may be. Unless you're only short-tripping while towing a max load, the answer is not 3k miles. If your worry is on oil degradation, you're focusing on the wrong thing.

There's several contributing factors to engine wear that start from the moment you first start the engine after an oil change. Much of this is mitigated by using better oil. The first consideration is volatility. The more volatile the oil, the more oil evaporation will occur and the more piston, ring, and valve deposits you will get. This process starts the first time the oil splashes on hot pistons and cylinder walls, not at 5k, 10k, or 25k miles. That virgin oil is going to burn off the light ends rather quickly, and this contributes to ring coking and valve deposits. Changing the oil more frequently than necessary can mean evaporating and burning these light ends more frequently for no positive trade-off.

Another factor is chemical stripping of anti-wear films by frequent bombardment of fresh detergents. While research into this is still in its infancy, there's evidence of anti-wear activity being lower for the first couple hundred miles or couple hours of run time after an oil change due to fresh detergents chemically stripping the anti-wear films deposited by the previous oil. The detergents are non-discriminatory in that they don't care what's deposited or what's acidic, whether good or bad, they're going to attack it all. It takes a little time for the fresh oil's anti-wear additives to replenish these losses. The result is a slightly higher wear rate for the first few hundred miles after an oil change. Changing the oil more frequently than necessary just puts the engine through this cycle more frequently for (again) no positive trade-off.

There's other factors, but I've got to wrap this up. Both situations above are mitigated by using better quality oil. Oils that are less volatile will contribute less to ring coking and deposits. Oils with certain esters will dissolve and remove deposits that do form. Oils with multiple anti-wear and FM additives working in synergy can mitigate the affects of chemical film stripping. These oils will also go longer intervals further minimizing these cycles.

I've seen just as many religiously maintained engines that are full of sludge as I have ones with poor maintenance. It's almost like the quality of oil matters...

 

[Faawrenchbndr]

Call me crazy, but I buy the best oil and filter. I can. And I change at 5k miles, or less. The end.

It may not make the most fiscal sense, but it’s best for the engine.

Oil is cheap, engines and turbos aren’t.

 

[Learn Ya]

What are thoughts about 5K mile oil change intervals

I run a 5K interval in my 2021 Chevy Equinox 1.5T commuter car with full synthetic oil. My daily round-trip commute is 90 miles on a 2-lane state highway (60 MPH average or less). My 'Nox is 90% highway, 10% stop-and-go city driving. At the 5,000 mile mark, the OLM says 30-35% in summer, and 28-32% in winter. The oil is slightly brown when draining, but still clear. I just rolled 115,000 miles and haven't experienced any major increase in oil consumption yet. My previous 2016 Chevy Malibu 1.5T had 130,000K+ at trade-in with no major increased oil consumption. Both vehicles burned a 1/4 quart of oil when new, and 1/3 quart beyond the 100K mark.

I plan to drive the 'Nox to 200K...or until I hit a deer (big problem in Michigan). So far, I am comfortable with the 5K oil change interval on the 1.5T engine. Just my $0.02.

 

[lsmotorrebuilder1984]

How about 4K right in between?

 

[thetricky]

I'd never buy a new vehicle.

We are on the same page then.

 

[Carlostrece]

For direct injection, I'd follow others advice. 5000 miles or 1 year (whichever comes 1st) sounds very conservative and safe IMO. I think it's especially safe if you're spraying cleaner in valves at oil change time, IMO.

I have port injection in my 97 Buick. With synthetic oil and the extra capacity (longer) filter I use, I'd be fine with 10K miles oil change interval if mostly highway miles, or 7.5K miles if mixed city/highway, or 5K miles if mostly city, or 1 year (whichever comes first) for most folks with a port injection car.

If using synthetic blend, then reduce those ^ oil change intervals miles by 25%.

In my case, my 28 yr old car with port injection only drives 300-400 miles a year. I change my oil every 3 years (900-1200) miles. The oil looks almost new when changed. It been working fine for decades. My mechanic recently had my valve covers off to replace gaskets. He said the valvetrain looks clean. No sludge or deposits seen.

I suggest using a good oilvfilter with 99% @ 30 microns or smaller. Ideally less than 30 microns. I prefer Napa Gold filter rated 99% @ 23 microns. Another good filter is Oreilly Microgard Select rated 99% @ 25 microns.

You do you, but 3K or 6 mo sounds like a tragic waste of oil, filters, time, and money, IMO.

 

[Pablo]

5K-10K-15K and once 20K on all sorts of vehicles the last 25+ years. Oil was fine engine always fine. The worst in all my years was the most recent with the 2017 1.5 CRV at 7K miles or so. And even then not a disaster. Just a bunch of fuel in the oil.

 

[tired]

5K-10K-15K and once 20K on all sorts of vehicles the last 25+ years. Oil was fine engine always fine. The worst in all my years was the most recent with the 2017 1.5 CRV at 7K miles or so. And even then not a disaster. Just a bunch of fuel in the oil.

How much oil do you burn on that Honda? It seems to be a notorious oil burner. Someone here even burning with HPL and AMSOIL in it.

 

[Pablo]

How much oil do you burn on that Honda? It seems to be a notorious oil burner. Someone here even burning with HPL and AMSOIL in it.

Interesting. Our CRV never burned any detectable amount of oil

 

[Nessism1]

I wanted to learn more about the Civic's oil life monitor. At 10k miles of mostly highway miles, what percentage oil life does your Honda oil life monitor show?

I don't think the Civic OLM considers what type of driving is done. I say this as someone with a Civic, and my car shows 50% oil life at 5000 miles, and almost all my driving is city miles.

 

[Patman]

I don't think the Civic OLM considers what type of driving is done. I say this as someone with a Civic, and my car shows 50% oil life at 5000 miles, and almost all my driving is city miles.

It definitely considers the type of driving. I have had an 8th gen and 10th gen Civic and people who own these cars all report different rates at which they reach 0% oil life. It’s not just a 10,000 mile countdown. I see mine counting down faster in the winter months for instance

 

[Nessism1]

How much oil do you burn on that Honda? It seems to be a notorious oil burner. Someone here even burning with HPL and AMSOIL in it.

The Honda 1.5T engine is not a burner. At least, not that I know about. My cars oil level doen't change. Mind you, these 1.5's are known for fuel accumulation, so it's possible that oil burned is being replaced by fuel, keeping the level stable, but I don't think that's the case.

 

[Nessism1]

It definitely considers the type of driving. I have had an 8th gen and 10th gen Civic and people who own these cars all report different rates at which they reach 0% oil life. It’s not just a 10,000 mile countdown. I see mine counting down faster in the winter months for instance

I've heard people state this before, but that's not my experience.

Early in the cars life, I was alarmed to see such a high oil life remaining given the miles used (90% city). After getting my mind around that, I decided to ignore the MM, and just change at 5000 miles. More recently, I've gone to 6 month intervals, because of fuel dilution. Interestingly, Honda doesn't detail a severe duty scheme, other than they mention "if driving in the mountains" scheme, which is severe duty. No mention of city driving all the time, like I do.

For the next change, I'll pay better attention to the MM and report back my findings.

 

[WobblyElvis]

I had a couple of 60's air cooed VWs and I changed the oil every 2,000+ miles as per the owner's manual. Since then...the owner's manuals for my cars built in the 70's and onward, the owner's manual specs 6,000 plus miles and often a filter change every second oil change. So this is what I do. Where this 3,000 mile oil change came from I really don't know. Marketing by those who want your money? If I drive a lot of short trips in the winter I might change at 4,000 miles.....but that is seldom done.