Oil Brand Marketing, Perception and Reputation

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Doesn't sound like hauling it around was worth the markup of like 10 cents a quart. Extra weight = extra gas, plus a chance of leaking oil in the trunk.
Of course back then gas was 25 cents a gallon LOL. And yeah, those old cardboard cans were quite prone to leakage, although some would consider that "rustproofing".
 
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For me it was the first time I walked into our family mech's home garage when I was in high school. There were Valvoline posters, Valvoline garbage cans, stickers on his tool box and cases of Valvoline stacked up in the corner, I figured if it was good enough for him it was good enough for me.
 
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The Shell GTL thing worked on me to an extent, it's such a pure, refined oil you know... I like to buy oil based on the data sheet and VOAs, that's the only reason i buy less store brand oil than i buy Shell or Total but i'm a nerd.
 

4WD

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I was first impressed with an oil's marketing when Mobil1 came out with the frying pan comparison. I found it to be straight forward and relevant. Oil commercials now contain what marketing folks call "glittering generalities", which carries no weight with me.


Geez - me and the smoke alarm already have issues 😷🧯
 
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The “wear test” is absolutely worthless. That’s been discussed here many times as it is not representative of any process inside the ICE nor is the YouTube version performed in a statistically valid manner. 90% of wear does not occur on cold start, please reference a technical paper or study that shows this. You won’t find one. Flow is nearly irrelevant, what matters is pumpability and that’s what the tests in SAE J300 and the winter rating represent. The YouTube test is flawed in many, many ways and adds no useful data.

The cooking test is equally useless since no engine raises the temperature of the oil to degradation like that nor does a failure test properly characterize the oil (what ASTM test does this mimic?)
what are your thoughts on the taste test?
 
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The “wear test” is absolutely worthless. That’s been discussed here many times as it is not representative of any process inside the ICE nor is the YouTube version performed in a statistically valid manner.
how is it not representative of the interaction between a cam lobe and a flat tappet lifter? it drastically accelerates the wear relative to what happens in an engine, but the type of wear is very much the same. the movement of the piston rings against the cylinder wall is also a comparable type of sliding movement.
 
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how is it not representative of the interaction between a cam lobe and a flat tappet lifter? it drastically accelerates the wear relative to what happens in an engine, but the type of wear is very much the same. the movement of the piston rings against the cylinder wall is also a comparable type of sliding movement.
It’s not. The pressures are completely different. As has been discussed here many times in great detail if you look around a bit.
 
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It’s not. The pressures are completely different. As has been discussed here many times in great detail if you look around a bit.
you're not wrong that the amount of pressure is different, however the type of movement is very much the same. i thought the point of the test was to rapidly replicate many thousands of hours' worth of wear? obviously it wouldn't be very practical to create a test jig that replicates the same amount of force and takes thousands of hours to produce results...
 
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you're not wrong that the amount of pressure is different, however the type of movement is very much the same. i thought the point of the test was to rapidly replicate many thousands of hours' worth of wear? obviously it wouldn't be very practical to create a test jig that replicates the same amount of force and takes thousands of hours to produce results...
Are we really going to get into that long and complicated topic here? Were you not involved in them before or are you really new?

Those test jigs are utterly worthless as equally the nonexistent data analysis.
 
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Are we really going to get into that long and complicated topic here? Were you not involved in them before or are you really new?

Those test jigs are utterly worthless as equally the nonexistent data analysis.
no, i was not previously involved in any discussions, whether they be about testing methodologies or optimal oil viscosities. i have read articles and threads on this site for years, but i had never actually interacted until recently i saw a change in the oil availability at my local walmart, thought "hm i should post on bitog about this", and made an account. i subsequently decided to chime in with some discussions i found interesting. i don't know why this is so hard for y'all to believe, but sometimes people who have never had an account on a given forum before, nor participated in discussions there, decide to make an account and speak up!

as for whether those jigs are worthwhile or not, i always got the impression they were based on a standardised test used by entities that certify oil. they obviously offer some kind of comparison because different oils do certainly produce different results, and there has to be some objective value to those results. it may not directly replicate the conditions in an engine, but i'd figure any test that's consistently applied to different oils and produces different results from each can't be utterly worthless.
 

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no, i was not previously involved in any discussions, whether they be about testing methodologies or optimal oil viscosities. i have read articles and threads on this site for years, but i had never actually interacted until recently i saw a change in the oil availability at my local walmart, thought "hm i should post on bitog about this", and made an account. i subsequently decided to chime in with some discussions i found interesting. i don't know why this is so hard for y'all to believe, but sometimes people who have never had an account on a given forum before, nor participated in discussions there, decide to make an account and speak up!

as for whether those jigs are worthwhile or not, i always got the impression they were based on a standardised test used by entities that certify oil. they obviously offer some kind of comparison because different oils do certainly produce different results, and there has to be some objective value to those results. it may not directly replicate the conditions in an engine, but i'd figure any test that's consistently applied to different oils and produces different results from each can't be utterly worthless.
Two important points:

1. We have formerly banned members return, often, just to troll and stir up controversy. Being new and stirring it up makes you look a lot like one of them.

2. No, not every test has value. Some are utterly worthless as the they test things that are irrelevant or inapplicable. Because the test doesn’t replicate a single engine process/interaction, it has zero value. If you’re looking for a gate hinge lubricant, then, perhaps the results are relevant.
 
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Two important points:

1. We have formerly banned members return, often, just to troll and stir up controversy. Being new and stirring it up makes you look a lot like one of them.
with how aggressive some of the members on here are, i don't suppose i'm particularly surprised... i never expected that people would tell me i have no idea what i'm talking about, when i stated the simple fact that 0w20 is about fuel economy rather than engine durability! to any experienced mechanic that's not a topic worthy of debate, it's just an obvious trend across the entire industry. i didn't think i was "stirring it up" when i posted sincere advice on that matter, although i certainly have since discovered otherwise.

2. No, not every test has value. Some are utterly worthless as the they test things that are irrelevant or inapplicable. Because the test doesn’t replicate a single engine process/interaction, it has zero value. If you’re looking for a gate hinge lubricant, then, perhaps the results are relevant.
i guess what i'm missing here is, do those jigs not imitate a test used by entities that certify oil? it's been a while since i watched a project farm oil video, but i thought that was the gist of his explanation of what the jig is for. i know his hot plate tests are definitely meant to imitate standardised tests used by such entities.

and as for a gate hinge lubricant, lubriplate chain and cable fluid is top notch for stuff like that!
 

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with how aggressive some of the members on here are, i don't suppose i'm particularly surprised... i never expected that people would tell me i have no idea what i'm talking about, when i stated the simple fact that 0w20 is about fuel economy rather than engine durability! to any experienced mechanic that's not a topic worthy of debate, it's just an obvious trend across the entire industry. i didn't think i was "stirring it up" when i posted sincere advice on that matter, although i certainly have since discovered otherwise.


i guess what i'm missing here is, do those jigs not imitate a test used by entities that certify oil? it's been a while since i watched a project farm oil video, but i thought that was the gist of his explanation of what the jig is for. i know his hot plate tests are definitely meant to imitate standardised tests used by such entities.

and as for a gate hinge lubricant, lubriplate chain and cable fluid is top notch for stuff like that!
Nobody is being aggressive in this thread.

You’ve got an industry professional, with several decades of experience, and a PhD, patiently explaining things to you.

But you’re choosing to argue, ignore his points, and continue to ask questions that have been answered, patiently, and completely.

This thread has become pointless.
 
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