Ok heres one for you. My wife has a 2000 Trooper with the 3.5L engine and auto transmission. We bought the car with 10k miles on it, it now has 56k. The engine uses about 1 qt per 3000-3500 miles. I originally used M1 10w-30 then M1 5w-30. I switched to Valvoline All Climate 5w-30 thinking the M1 was causing it to go "somewhere". The motor runs fine, just the usual valve train noise these motors make. What would be the best oil to run in these motors, and where would this oil be going? (no smoke or drips at all)
Oil and 2000 Isuzu Trooper
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It's a design issue with the 1998-2000 isuzu 3.2/3.5L engines. The suspected cause is inadequate oil drain-back holes in the piston oil control ring grooves. As the engine ages & the ring packs get dirty, the holes plug, causing oil to be pushed into & burned in the combustion chamber. Supposedly, the 2001+ run of these engines have a revised piston & oil ring design that resolves this. Preventative measures are to clean your intake & EGR system to keep cylinder temps low, keep your PCV system spotless to reduce crank-case pressure & don't stretch your OCI's too far! Isuzu will replace your short-block if oil consumption is above 1qt/1000mi- if you still have warranty left. I'd try a good soak with LC before I did anything invasive. Keep a CLOSE eye on your oil level with the 3.5L. You will spin a bearing REAL quick with little or no warning if you inadvertently run it a few quarts low
G/luck!
Joel
Joel
See, that's the super-cool thing about this site...one person will have a good deal of knowledge on a particular vehicle/engine, and from there, it is pretty easy to offer an oil recommendation!quote:
Originally posted by JTK:
It's a design issue with the 1998-2000 isuzu 3.2/3.5L engines. The suspected cause is inadequate oil drain-back holes in the piston oil control ring grooves. As the engine ages & the ring packs get dirty, the holes plug, causing oil to be pushed into & burned in the combustion chamber. Supposedly, the 2001+ run of these engines have a revised piston & oil ring design that resolves this. Preventative measures are to clean your intake & EGR system to keep cylinder temps low, keep your PCV system spotless to reduce crank-case pressure & don't stretch your OCI's too far! Isuzu will replace your short-block if oil consumption is above 1qt/1000mi- if you still have warranty left. I'd try a good soak with LC before I did anything invasive. Keep a CLOSE eye on your oil level with the 3.5L. You will spin a bearing REAL quick with little or no warning if you inadvertently run it a few quarts lowG/luck!
Joel
In terms of keeping the ring-pack clean, I believe a high detgentent oil is what is needed.
Rotella-T Synthetic 5w-40.
Available at Wal-Mart for $12/gallon.
Your current 1qt/3000 miles isn't too bad, and the Rotella 5w-40 will most likely reduce that figure a good deal.
The engine uses about 1 qt per 3000-3500 miles
Be thankful that is all it is using. Our 98 Trooper used about 1 qt every 1,200-1,500 miles. Dealer said "normal". I ran Mobil 1 10W30 in it from about 10,000 miles until I totaled it with 98,000 miles on it.
I did find that a mixture of Mobil 1 5W30 and Mobil 1 15W40 did decrease the oil use to about 1 quart every 3,000 miles.
Be thankful that is all it is using. Our 98 Trooper used about 1 qt every 1,200-1,500 miles. Dealer said "normal". I ran Mobil 1 10W30 in it from about 10,000 miles until I totaled it with 98,000 miles on it.
I did find that a mixture of Mobil 1 5W30 and Mobil 1 15W40 did decrease the oil use to about 1 quart every 3,000 miles.
Glad to see more Trooper drivers onboard. I wouldn't worry about the oil consumption yet, it's normal for these engines. I used M1 10W-30 in my 2001 but for the last year I've been feeding it Chevron/Havoline 5W-30 or 10W-30 and oddly enough, the oil consumption has halved to about 1/2qt per 3000mi. It may be subjective but I think the valvetrain noise also subsided with 10W-30 Chevron compared to same weight M1.
I was running a 10w-30 MDC and M1 mix for awhile and also couldn't stand the valve train "clickedy-clickedy" from my 2002 rodeo 3.2L with that mix. Curiosity got the best of me at one point (Thanks Jelly!) & I went so far as to try pennzoil LL 15w-40. Isuzu specs up to a 20w-50 for temps above 10degF. My 3.2 was smooth as silk & extremely quiet with this oil, but noticably sluggish & VERY poor MPG's. I'm currently running havoline 5w-30 (extreme cold in Buffalo these days) So far this oil keeps the 'ol direct-attack valvetrain noise at bay, offers good performance & mileage. I'll run havoline 10w-30 for the summer. @ 20Kmi, my 2002 3.2L uses about 1qt/3-4Kmi.
Joel
[ January 24, 2004, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: JTK ]
Joel
[ January 24, 2004, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: JTK ]
Well, you're welcome!
Sorry to hear about the sluggishness and poor MPG, but it is nice to hear about it making the engine smooth and quiet.
Did you notice your oil consumption drop much?
My experience using Pennz. Long-Life 15w-40 has been limited to slow-turning engines with not a great deal of power, such as tractors, lawn mowers, and the 4.3L V-6 in my truck.
My girlfriend though has a Volvo that gets ran hard, gets rev'd high, and doesn't seem sluggish at all...she's running Delo 400 15w-40, so maybe when summer comes around, you could give that a try?
Jelly- consumption was nill with the penz LL 15w-40. I dumped it early @ 1200mi due to the doggyness & 14mpg & will use it in my dads old chevy 4.3L w/t. Hate to see a good oil go to waste
15w-40 is just too much for my little 3.2L to move around
. The experiment was worth it!
Joel
Joel
Hmmm...lets see:
Much quieter
Much smoother
Consumption drops to almost nothing
BUT
MPG drops
Slower
Now you know why we have CAFE!
Like I said though, Delo 400 definitely is not "too much" of an oil for the 2.4 I5 in the Volvo, so it kinda "beffudles" me as to why it would with your engine..hmmmm??
Much quieter
Much smoother
Consumption drops to almost nothing
BUT
MPG drops
Slower
Now you know why we have CAFE!
Like I said though, Delo 400 definitely is not "too much" of an oil for the 2.4 I5 in the Volvo, so it kinda "beffudles" me as to why it would with your engine..hmmmm??
My wife has a 99 Amigo with the 3.2L and it started burning about 1qt/3,000 miles at about 30,000 miles. I am using regular Pennzoil 10W30 in it. I may try the High Mileage Pennzoil at the next change and see how it does. It is a peppy engine though and will run rings around the 4.3 in my S-10.
Originally posted by Brett Miller:
Joel
They really are a gutsy little engine. IMO- as much seat'o the pants as many of the smaller light truck V8's out there today. Isuzu converted the 3.5L to a direct injection system for 2004 rodeos & axioms that puts out something like 250hp/250ft-lbs torque. The DI technology eliminates EGR & lets the engine idle down to almost nothing at a stand-still. I'm curious to see how people like these new 3.5's. Check it out @ http://www.isuzu.com/direct_injection_engine.jsp
Joel
can any one tell me why Isuzu is not fixing this problem? I do not have one but a relative does and he’s been fighting the dealer for years and has gotten no where. Anyone just ran the thing out of oil and tried to get it fixed under warranty? There has to be some people out there who have lost and engine because of it.
Right after I graduated from college I worked in a friends garage. A local brought their Trooper in for an oil change because the engine was making a noise. It had over 30,000 miles on it and the oil had never been changed! We removed the oil plug and the oil would barely drain out. We got out what we could, put fresh oil in and sent it out the door. The customer took the vehicle to the dealer and they replaced the engine. I couldn't believe they replaced it under warranty.
There are a bunch of posts out there on various isuzu sites of failed 1998-2001 3.2 & 3.5L engines. They typically follow the same scenerio:
1) Owner does not change their own oil or care to lift the hood, uses "iffy" lube type places.
2) Owner bought the truck used & does not know the full history of the truck.
3) Owner is aware the engine uses oil, does not troubleshoot issue.
4) Owner noticed some engine noise after extended, high speed travel, no oil showing on dipstick, engine typically has a spun #1 rod bearing.
I have not heard of isuzu giving anyone a hard time with a short block replacement so long as you have powertrain warranty left. Out of warranty you are SOL.
There are owners out there pushing 200Kmi on their 1998+ 3.2/3.5 that run like new. They change their own oil, use quality oil & are very diligent with preventative maintenance.
G/luck
Joel
1) Owner does not change their own oil or care to lift the hood, uses "iffy" lube type places.
2) Owner bought the truck used & does not know the full history of the truck.
3) Owner is aware the engine uses oil, does not troubleshoot issue.
4) Owner noticed some engine noise after extended, high speed travel, no oil showing on dipstick, engine typically has a spun #1 rod bearing.
I have not heard of isuzu giving anyone a hard time with a short block replacement so long as you have powertrain warranty left. Out of warranty you are SOL.
There are owners out there pushing 200Kmi on their 1998+ 3.2/3.5 that run like new. They change their own oil, use quality oil & are very diligent with preventative maintenance.
G/luck
Joel
There's the answer!
Seriously though, I don't think there is much of a problem, just two things:
1. Certain engines don't stand up to owners abuse/neglect/misuse as well as others and situations such as oil sludging and piston ring problems result.
2. Owners try to find a problem with the vehicle so they can blame it on someone else!
(Now, yes, many vehicles definitely DO HAVE problems, but many don't as well)
We have very few troopers around here (maybe 5 in a city of a million people, but JTK that is very interesting. Considering this, isn't this engine a candidate for:
1. Auto RX to clean up the rings a bit.
2. A non-synthetic so that there will be more shear at the rings and permit some compression of the oil instead of maintaining it.
3. An oil with moly in the formulation to give more protection on the cylinder walls with the reduced passage of oil.
Point 2 is just a vague theory. I know that a monograde will not squeeze out and therefor has higher consumption, so extrapolating what I know about VI improvers in non synthetics and high natural VI in synthetics, I draw enough of a relationship that I would experiment if I had the problem.
1. Auto RX to clean up the rings a bit.
2. A non-synthetic so that there will be more shear at the rings and permit some compression of the oil instead of maintaining it.
3. An oil with moly in the formulation to give more protection on the cylinder walls with the reduced passage of oil.
Point 2 is just a vague theory. I know that a monograde will not squeeze out and therefor has higher consumption, so extrapolating what I know about VI improvers in non synthetics and high natural VI in synthetics, I draw enough of a relationship that I would experiment if I had the problem.
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