YOUR WARRANTY ...what is the real chance of a warranty denial b/c of your oil? Examples?
- Thread starter TiGeo
- Start date
I think it was a car meet, but I met an retired Chrysler engineer, worked at Jeep Truck Engineering on Plymouth Road in Detroit. I kept in touch with him over the years by email because he explained a lot of "DID THEY NOT THINK IT WOULD BE SERVICED?" repairs I've done over the years.
I asked him about warranty denials once when I was dealing with an issue in my work at time (long story involving tire chains...). His experience is having been thru a few engineering investigations of warranty claims, corporate may deny the claim because its the fault of the dealer and they need to use their channels for such issues but, they won't a lot of times due to the fact they would admit fault.
Best story he told me about this around 1995, they were notified by the warranty team they are sending them an engine, a 12V Cummins from a 1995 Dodge Ram 3500 Chassis Cab and wanted their evaluation. Didn't say why or anything. They get it, took it apart and even had someone from Cummins come look at it with them; it clearly was a engine seizure from lack of oil. So they reported that back, but he asked what the was story, the gal abruptly said "Its a fraud issue, we are not sure what to do here." So he offered to help more, and with his boss's approval, he was able to talk to the customer.
Turns out it was a chassis cab sold to a construction company, a small 5 person one and they just put on a custom flat deck. He mentioned they run the heavy duty service schedule since they idle the truck a lot and do a lot of towing, been doing oil changes almost every 2 months because of that along with high miles. Then one day, it wouldn't crank, it was towed to the dealer and they said the warranty was denied for engine replacement due to commercial use. So he paid the 15K or so in 1995 dollars for a new engine from the dealer as they needed it on the road
, but it didn't sit right with him when he had other issues with the truck, so he took it to another dealer one day who started to go up the chain when for the customer. This is where it gets weird; he had saved all his receipts showing they did these oil and sent them over by fax. Yup, like clockwork, he was putting on 5K or so every 2-3 months and would get his oil changes like clockwork. But Chrysler had no record of this in their system, but he said the dealer to corporate EDI in that era was not very reliable so these invoices were gold here. They showed a warrenty claim was put in, but it was written like a 5 year old in all lower caps and very simple; said like "engine bad, no oil, customer wants new one." His suggestion when he was talking to everyone invoived was "Replace anything that dealer touched on that truck free of charge" as he thinks the dealer was hiding something.
Sure enough, they found out that the dealer was not doing oil changes physically and just pocketing the money. They did not actually do an LOF on this truck for an ENTIRE YEAR, not following the HD schedule at all. And they found this out on other customers too. Dealer was dropped by Chrysler...
I asked him about warranty denials once when I was dealing with an issue in my work at time (long story involving tire chains...). His experience is having been thru a few engineering investigations of warranty claims, corporate may deny the claim because its the fault of the dealer and they need to use their channels for such issues but, they won't a lot of times due to the fact they would admit fault.
Best story he told me about this around 1995, they were notified by the warranty team they are sending them an engine, a 12V Cummins from a 1995 Dodge Ram 3500 Chassis Cab and wanted their evaluation. Didn't say why or anything. They get it, took it apart and even had someone from Cummins come look at it with them; it clearly was a engine seizure from lack of oil. So they reported that back, but he asked what the was story, the gal abruptly said "Its a fraud issue, we are not sure what to do here." So he offered to help more, and with his boss's approval, he was able to talk to the customer.
Turns out it was a chassis cab sold to a construction company, a small 5 person one and they just put on a custom flat deck. He mentioned they run the heavy duty service schedule since they idle the truck a lot and do a lot of towing, been doing oil changes almost every 2 months because of that along with high miles. Then one day, it wouldn't crank, it was towed to the dealer and they said the warranty was denied for engine replacement due to commercial use. So he paid the 15K or so in 1995 dollars for a new engine from the dealer as they needed it on the road
, but it didn't sit right with him when he had other issues with the truck, so he took it to another dealer one day who started to go up the chain when for the customer. This is where it gets weird; he had saved all his receipts showing they did these oil and sent them over by fax. Yup, like clockwork, he was putting on 5K or so every 2-3 months and would get his oil changes like clockwork. But Chrysler had no record of this in their system, but he said the dealer to corporate EDI in that era was not very reliable so these invoices were gold here. They showed a warrenty claim was put in, but it was written like a 5 year old in all lower caps and very simple; said like "engine bad, no oil, customer wants new one." His suggestion when he was talking to everyone invoived was "Replace anything that dealer touched on that truck free of charge" as he thinks the dealer was hiding something.
Sure enough, they found out that the dealer was not doing oil changes physically and just pocketing the money. They did not actually do an LOF on this truck for an ENTIRE YEAR, not following the HD schedule at all. And they found this out on other customers too. Dealer was dropped by Chrysler...
I know this is a "I know a guy story" but I do have a friend that years ago had a 2.2 OHC Chrysler engine have a camshaft failure and was denied warranty coverage because of an oversize oil filter. They claimed this delayed the oil flow to the top end. Anyone that knows anything about those engines knows that was not an uncommon failure in those engines in the early days regardless of filter size.
If it had been mine I would have fought that decision much harder than he did.
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The most common way I know for a dealer to loose a franchise is to charge the customer for a repair and then bill it as warranty. All you need to do is change the mileage or tell the customer something is not covered under powertrain when it is. But the manufacturers have algorithms that look for this sort of thing and you will be caught sooner or later.
That's assuming a customer doesn't show up at another dealer wanting a repeat repair warrantied (under 1 year Dealer's Repair Warranty) and it's in the system as a being paid for by the Manufacturer despite the customer having a receipt saying otherwise.
I think I do remember Chrysler being a little crazy about oil filters for warranty claims years ago, so I'm not too surprised about that situation. Believe it or not, Kia and Hyundai have TSB's on incorrect oil filter sizes causing the MIL to light up for cam codes. I've seen it happen once when this lady took her Sorento 2.4 in to Jiffy Lube and gave her this little bite-sized oil filter lol. I changed the oil with an OEM Kia filter and the customer never came back with the same problem. Don't know what a big filter would do since there is an anti-drainback valve to allow immediate flow at start. Maybe a large oil filter acts like an expansion tank in some way and lowers oil pressure for engines not designed to have it.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Nope, me neither
Two questions
1. Has this really gone six pages
2. How do you find the dead horse icon on the new venue
At the individual level, one still has to sue in Federal Civil Court on their dime to enforce the MMWA. FTC does not enforce this act unless it is a pattern of a corporate level malfeasance
That's always been my question....what's so special about VW that they 'require' special oil? The VW 2.5 5 cyl. should do fine on just about any 5w30 changed at reasonable intervals.....the 1.4T, 1.8T or 2.0T may be more particular due to the turbo but again....a good 5w30 synthetic meeting H-06 should work well. If you are going to run super long OCI's (as spec'd in Europe) then maybe using VW approved oils is recommended....
Not nessarilly engine oil, but BOY, "what bill" after 8 years and still not fully solved......Hyundai/Kia admitted 3 to 5 billion dollars in an 8 year period. With 275-300 dead car sitting at a dealer at one time, said a factory Hyundai mechanic when it was at it's peak. With new dead car filling in a fixed one the same day multiple times a day at the peak. When my wife's 2013 Elantra GT galled up the piston skirts at 14,000 miles with it's life of Mobil 1 and Walmart full synthetic (70% Mobil 1) and changed at 3,000 ( short tripping) my dealer had 30 cars waiting dead. I own a Hyundai now too, but one with one of their top 2 best motors. Fingers crossed.
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
They absolutely did! If you used conventional 5W-30 and didn't change it often, you were at least partially responsible for the engine replacement. They spec'd synthetic oil and many people used whatever the $19.99 oil coupon change and ended up with very slugged and coked engines as a result. You really think VW replaced those engines for free?..
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
No!! Not since prior to 1981 or so when it was absolutely very common:
Magnuson-Moss Act, Aftermarket Auto Parts and Oil Change Facts
Using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty according to the FTC. Learn about Magnuson-Moss and aftermarket auto parts.
automotiveaftermarket.org
Not sure what years you are talking about but I bought a used 2004 A4 from a friend and he got a letter in the mail referencing a TSB that changed the OCI to 5k from 10k, changed the filter size (essentially doubled the size) and specified synthetic meeting a 502.00/505.00 oil. Prior to that though 10k on conventional was what was in the manual. Never had a sludge problem though in that car. My 2001 S4 I don't believe ever had such a TSB changing the OCI or requiring synthetic but it was so long ago I don't remember. On my own, I always used synthetic though I changed every 5k instead of the recommended 10k but I can't guarantee that early on I used a VW spec oil. I think I used M1 0W-30 once. Also can't remember if I had any shops do changes on that car or if I did all the odd ones.
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
Starting in the mid-to-late 90's with the turbo 1.8L's. There were some very sludged Beetles at the time!
To be honest I am looking at a VW Jetta now, and not sure why VW is still so picky with their naturally aspirated 2.5L's requiring synthetic...
A family friend is a tech at a local Dodge dealership. He had someone come in for a warranty claim on lifter tick on a new truck. They checked the oil and it had a redish tint. They asked the owner if he'd tried putting anything in the oil to eliminate the tick. He opened his mouth and admitted to putting 2 quarts of ATF in it trying to get rid of it. Warranty instantly denied.
The 1.8t sludging problem was mainly in A4's because they had one less quart capacity than the transverse cars.
The fascination with ATF...when there are actual products for this. Mind blowing.
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Actually, there's a whole panel on the 'Roo board (www.nasioc.com) concerning warranty denials. Apparently, the Subaru Corporation is very much aware of WRX and STI owners choosing to experiment with and adopt oil weights other than those specified for their cars.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Friend of a friend anecdotes don't count. If anyone has actual evidence backed by paperwork, then it can be considered. And even at that juncture, one example hardly makes it likely for the masses, much less commonplace.
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I take your point, wemay, but I think you'll agree that the 'Roo boys have raised this issue to an art form. Warranty Issues & SOA Problems - NASIOC
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Here's a KIA Optima with only one documented oil change in the previous 45k miles 
The engine replacement was covered under warranty. This could have easily been denied, and most likely should have been.
The engine replacement was covered under warranty. This could have easily been denied, and most likely should have been.
Pics, ONE oil change in 45K miles (2015 Kia Optima 2.4)
Came to the dealership for touch up paint and this car was sitting in front of a service bay. The Certified Tech working on it, oddly enough is an old buddy. After catching up, he shared this story... -One owner car bought in 2014. -Owner just moved down from Maryland. -Engine gave up the ghost...
bobistheoilguy.com
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