Oh Man!!! Worked VQ35 low miles Mobil 10w-30 dino serious issues

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Hey Guys

MichaelWan started a thread a little earlier about a recommendation for my engine. It's a twin turbo, sleeved, deckedd VQ35.

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Here is the UOA I got for the engine. You KNOW it's bad news when they actually CALL you to tell you about your report. Let's hope that's not the case. Obviously I am very concerned about the antifreeze in the oil. this engine is sleeved, and the sleeves do not have o-rings for a total seal. So antifreeze leaking passed them is not out of the question. Another point, we definitely DID have a head gasket leak, and this is thr UOA for the oil that was put in right after the repair. So, there could be some residual from the previous fill when there WAS a leak. Is this feasible?

A couple of corrections. The miles on this ENGINE (not the total mileage on the car like indicated in the report) is actually about 4000-5000 miles (can't remember), with about 1500-2000 on this oil, not 3 (again I could be wrong).

Visually, the oil looks good. I do not have the antifreeze smell like I did before, no headgasket leaks now. Once however, when I was beating on the car right before the oil change, the level in the coolant did go up, which sent chills through my spine. There must have been head lift from possible detonation, as the car was in the process of being tuned. The air bled out of the system in the next couple of hundred miles of driving, so the worst case scenario is that the head gasket needs replacing again or the studs need to be retorqued. Point being, could there be coolant passing into the crankcase fromthis one event (which never repeated).

Thanks for all your comments guys... Much appreciated. Please tell me what you all think, not just about the antifreze (which is determined solely by sodium and potassium numbers i am told), but about the entire UOA. At least the lead number is good.

Gurgen

[ July 12, 2005, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
 
Gurgen,
I think its just residue antifreeze from the headgasket work since you previously had a major leak.

I'd sample the M1 T&SUV 5w-40 in 2,000 miles and have Terry take a look at it as well.

For those of us with bad eyes:
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BTW, though off topic, you should consider using a silicate free antifreeze in your car such as Prestone All Makes/Models instead of Peak.

Michael
 
I did a performance rebuild on my small block ford 4x4 302. I did everything by the book and really carefully using all new ARP fasteners. In any case, I had classic symptoms of a head gasket leak right after the rebuild (coolant overflowing the expansion tank with no overheating).

I took it to a good radiator shop and they sealed a glass capsule-y thingy filled with a clear chemical over the open radiator hole and told me to fire it up. Heat from the radiator bubbled through the capsule/chemical thingy and very shortly the clear chemical turned blue.

Anyhow, this is the way they test for hydrocarbons in your coolant and is an excellent way to verify a head-gasket leak.

I removed both heads, cleaned the surfaces and reinstalled high-end fel-pro gaskets and re-torqued.

Problem solved. My learning was that I was glad I used ARP fasteners that are good for plenty of torque cycles (not one-use) and always get the most expensive gaskets you can get for places that are a pain in the *ss to fix.

Good luck sorting out this problem!
 
How much boost are you running on what octane gas? Too much boost on too low octane = kaboom. Even pump 94 octane is going to substantially limit how much boost you can run; well, you can richen it up and dial back timing I guess. Just some thoughts. Have you had it totally tuned so you know EXACTLY where the state of tune is and that you're not getting any detonation?
 
Hey Guys..

A clarification: this was NOT M1 synthetic, it was 10w30 mobil dyno oil.

quote:

Is this Mobil 1 API SL or SM?

Looked up the acronyms, could'd find SL or SM.

Michael, good tip on the Antifreeze...what about those higher end ones? THe pink ones? Any better cooling? Or Redline water wetter?

quote:

Head gasket problem this early in engine life?

quote:

I did a performance rebuild on my small block ford 4x4 302. I did everything by the book and really carefully using all new ARP fasteners. In any case, I had classic symptoms of a head gasket leak right after the rebuild (coolant overflowing the expansion tank with no overheating).

I took it to a good radiator shop and they sealed a glass capsule-y thingy filled with a clear chemical over the open radiator hole and told me to fire it up. Heat from the radiator bubbled through the capsule/chemical thingy and very shortly the clear chemical turned blue.

Anyhow, this is the way they test for hydrocarbons in your coolant and is an excellent way to verify a head-gasket leak.

I removed both heads, cleaned the surfaces and reinstalled high-end fel-pro gaskets and re-torqued.

Problem solved. My learning was that I was glad I used ARP fasteners that are good for plenty of torque cycles (not one-use) and always get the most expensive gaskets you can get for places that are a pain in the *ss to fix.

Good luck sorting out this problem!

Well.. I have mixed feelings about ARP. Their main studs...for sure... but the head studs have to be retorqued. And that is a $1000 job, as everythign needs to come off the engine but the heads themselves to get to the studs. We did this on the pass-side head, but not the d-side (since that one was having the head gasket replaced).

AS far as the leak tester... belive you me, i tried all of them. My leak was SO minor that the chemical reaction would not take place. IT was other methods that revealed the problem.

I am essentially going to hang tight and get the next UOA nad get eval'd by Terry.

What do you guys think about the other metals? I really liked the lead score. What does that mean exactly?

Thanks
 
quote:

Originally posted by Drew99GT:
How much boost are you running on what octane gas? Too much boost on too low octane = kaboom. Even pump 94 octane is going to substantially limit how much boost you can run; well, you can richen it up and dial back timing I guess. Just some thoughts. Have you had it totally tuned so you know EXACTLY where the state of tune is and that you're not getting any detonation?

Im sure this guy already knows the basics of tuning.
 
I think its residual coolant and will be there for the next several changes....

I'd recommend using Auto RX or LC20 to dissolve the remaining acidic sludge deposits. In addition, I'd do a couple of 3000 mile service intervals until the engine is clean again.

Tooslick
 
Just get a proven good dino like Chevron or Pennzoil - run for about 1000 miles or less. Then refill with same oil, go 3K then do another UOA.

OR I agree with TS as well a clean up may help...
 
quote:

I think its residual coolant and will be there for the next several changes....

I'd recommend using Auto RX or LC20 to dissolve the remaining acidic sludge deposits. In addition, I'd do a couple of 3000 mile service intervals until the engine is clean again.

Tooslick

I really really hope so. I'll put in some LC20 soon. I am not too concerned with the change interval, i can do it often if I don't have a choice.

quote:

How much boost are you running on what octane gas? Too much boost on too low octane = kaboom. Even pump 94 octane is going to substantially limit how much boost you can run; well, you can richen it up and dial back timing I guess. Just some thoughts. Have you had it totally tuned so you know EXACTLY where the state of tune is and that you're not getting any detonation?

Drew 99, I am very much aware of this. I have a state of the art datalogging system in this car, including dual bank AFR, EGT, TPS (throttle ***), IAT (intake air temp), ECT (engine coolant temp), + others, and soon will have timing advance logging, fuel pressure, etc... ALL at 12 samples per second per channel. I am very very careful with the tune, and am not planning to run more than 12 psi of boost with anything other than race gas (100). Unfortunately all we get for pump gas is 91 octane cat **** california gasoline, and now that's $2.79/gal (race gas is 5.95/gallon).

Offtopic: does anyone know how to mix their own race gas? I heard toluene is pretty much all they add to pump gas to certify it at 100 octane.
 
Propylene glycol antifreeze/coolant products are not only much less toxic, they're also less likely to cause serious harm to bearing metals if internal leakage occurs. Their downside is that they don't have quite the heat transfer capability of ethylene glycol, though it's usually not a problem in well-maintained cooling systems.
 
UPDATE: I spoke with Gurgen today and we decided to order 1 bottle of Auto-RX, and add it to the M1 T&SUV 5w-40 that currently has 3000 miles on it along with a filter change.

After the 1500 mi. clean phase, he'll rinse with a dino that has yet to be decided.

He may consider using LC20 once the RX clean/rinse phase is complete.

MW
 
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