I understand some manufacturers are using syn's in certain vehicles off the assembly line i.e. Corvette's, BMW's, and Porsche's. Can anybody collabarate this? If so, wonder what type?
OEM's using Syn
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Mobil SS if I'm not mistaken.
Regards,
Oz
Regards,
Oz
Patman
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I know that Mobil 1 is the factory fill for Vipers and Corvettes for sure. I think BMW has it's own brand of synthetic (probably repackaged from another brand)
Don't forget Volkswagon. They use a 5W-40 formulation made by Castrol.
As far as I know, VW of North America uses Castrol Syntec which is just Group III. I believe VW of Europe uses Castrol SLX - or something like that - which is the "real" synthetic.
Regards,
Oz
Ford's Cobra comes with Mobil 1.
Oz is correct about the VW oil. Just Castrol Group III 5W40. Nothing in a VW bottle.
BMW: Another Group III made by Castrol for BMW.
Corvette: 5W30 Mobil 1
Viper: 10W30 Mobil 1
Porsche, Mercedes, and Aston Martin 0W40 Mobil 1
I think the Mustang Cobra is using Mobil 1 15W50.
There may be more but I think that's it. At least for what you buy in this country.
BMW: Another Group III made by Castrol for BMW.
Corvette: 5W30 Mobil 1
Viper: 10W30 Mobil 1
Porsche, Mercedes, and Aston Martin 0W40 Mobil 1
I think the Mustang Cobra is using Mobil 1 15W50.
There may be more but I think that's it. At least for what you buy in this country.
Aston Martin and Mercedes AMG M1 0W40 I think?
My understanding is that Audi has been filling their cars with Synthetic 0W-30, VW's factory fill 5W-40 is not (as far as I know) synthetic.
The Castrol Syntec 5W-40 that is sold here in the U.S. by VW dealers is Group III, but I don't believe it's the same as the factory fill.
If anyone knows for sure about what VW/Audi uses from the factory, please post.
The Castrol Syntec 5W-40 that is sold here in the U.S. by VW dealers is Group III, but I don't believe it's the same as the factory fill.
If anyone knows for sure about what VW/Audi uses from the factory, please post.
Baseline oil analysis samples of the factory oil used in current VW TDI engines shows viscosity in the range of 10-11 centistokes @ 100C. So this is most likely a 0w-30 or 5w-30, group III synthetic.
The Castrol "SLX" is an excellent PAO based, 0w-30 that is sold in Europe. But I doubt that VW would be using something this expensive as a factory fill.
The 5w-30 Syntec sold in the US does NOT meet the VW 505 or ACEA B4 specifications, so Castrol supplies the 5w-40 to VW dealers ....
The Castrol "SLX" is an excellent PAO based, 0w-30 that is sold in Europe. But I doubt that VW would be using something this expensive as a factory fill.
The 5w-30 Syntec sold in the US does NOT meet the VW 505 or ACEA B4 specifications, so Castrol supplies the 5w-40 to VW dealers ....
Chevy started this in '93. I was under the impression that it was done in the interest of saving the weight of an oil cooler.
The crank on all 3 versions of the LT1 are identical so it seems they would have done this for GM F/B/D bodies also.
Okay Guys, now comes question 2.....With the indepth analysis made between dino and syns which are posted to the site.....why would OEM's use syn instead of dino? Wonder if the owners manuals/stickers say syn only? Dino in bulk has to be cheaper than syn. Just curious.....
I had it on pretty good authority that the original change to M1 in the Corvette a few years back was because of poorly drilled oil passages in the crankshafts. On a cool morning at the factory they spun the mains of several cars that had been parked outside. Someone came up with the Synthetic idea to avoid the agony of recall/rework and it apparently worked ok for them. Once you do something like that there's no going back. RW
LOL...yep, CF rated Group 3 sludge is what VW wants us TDI'ers to use. That way we'll be sure to be repeat customers because only VW dealerships carry 5w-40. And don't forget the repeated EGR and intake cleanings thanks to Castrol as well.
BTW, it's Volkswagen not Volkswagon.
BMW: Another Group III made by Castrol for BMW.
Johnny, are you sure about this? How can a Group III 5W30 meet all requirements of ACEA A3/B3? If they can do it, why can't everyone?
Johnny, are you sure about this? How can a Group III 5W30 meet all requirements of ACEA A3/B3? If they can do it, why can't everyone?
Joatman,
This is simply a matter of the required high temp/high shear (HT/HS) viscosity. The SAE requires a minimum HT/HS viscosity of > 2.9 Cp @ 150C for 0w-30/5w-30/10w-30 grades. Most of the xw-30 oils sold in the US are formulated in the 2.9-3.2 Cp range, in order to optimize fuel efficiency.
The ACEA A3/B3/B4 requirement for HT/HS viscosity is > 3.5 Cp, to provide good wear protection under "Autobahn" driving conditions. If you are running @ 100+ mph, you can see sustained oil temps in the 240F-260F range, so the oil really thins out.
As a result, most xw-30 oils sold in the US (including full synthetics) don't meet the cutoff spec on HT/HS viscosity .....Any SAE 0w-40 or 5w-40 will meet this spec, however.
This is simply a matter of the required high temp/high shear (HT/HS) viscosity. The SAE requires a minimum HT/HS viscosity of > 2.9 Cp @ 150C for 0w-30/5w-30/10w-30 grades. Most of the xw-30 oils sold in the US are formulated in the 2.9-3.2 Cp range, in order to optimize fuel efficiency.
The ACEA A3/B3/B4 requirement for HT/HS viscosity is > 3.5 Cp, to provide good wear protection under "Autobahn" driving conditions. If you are running @ 100+ mph, you can see sustained oil temps in the 240F-260F range, so the oil really thins out.
As a result, most xw-30 oils sold in the US (including full synthetics) don't meet the cutoff spec on HT/HS viscosity .....Any SAE 0w-40 or 5w-40 will meet this spec, however.
Vaderss Re: Corvette cranks The story I got was that a quantity of cranks with defective undersize oil passages (at a place where two passages intesect) went to the Corvette plant and had mostly or all been installed in cars before the problem was detected. They weighed the costs (in the typical GM fashion) and decided that the warranty cost on the engines would be lower or nonexistent if they went to sythetic. Thats about all I remember of the situation. Regards, RW
In addition to the high temp/high shear test, I thought that ACEA A3/B3 included tests/standards for shear stability, evaporation loss, foaming tendency, deposit control, oil thickening, sludge control and wear. Is that not the case?
Do these tests not mean anything for the US driving style? I was lead to believe that ACEA A3/B3 meant that an oil was good for high performance and/or extended drain. I'm here to learn. What do the experts say?
Jack
Jack,
The ACEA A3/B3 requirements are more stringent, but any good 40wt or 50wt synthetic will pass them, even a Group III. It is much harder to pass these specs with a 30wt oil ...The only other 5w-30, ACEA A3/B3 oil I know of is the Series 3000, 5w-30. It just passes the HT/HS
viscosity spec @ 3.6 Cp ....
TooSlick
The ACEA A3/B3 requirements are more stringent, but any good 40wt or 50wt synthetic will pass them, even a Group III. It is much harder to pass these specs with a 30wt oil ...The only other 5w-30, ACEA A3/B3 oil I know of is the Series 3000, 5w-30. It just passes the HT/HS
viscosity spec @ 3.6 Cp ....
TooSlick
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