Observation - PP, Ultra and Wal-Mart in Canada

Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
15,229
Location
Canada
I thought when Pennzoil Ultra came out, it would become PZ's flagship product, and other would 'fade' to the side. So I thought retailers that 'push' PZ products, like WM here, would promote this product a lot. When PU came out in Canada, after a bit, WM did have 5L jugs of 5W-20 and 5W-30 on for $36.88, which, honestly, is a steal for that calibre of oil. If they kept up that price, I figured they'd sell a lot, and it would be the main special prioduct they had. But that didn't happen - the PU didn't sell, got relegated to side counters, and just sits there, and I went into a WM on the weekend, and they had a HUGE display of 4.73L jugs of SN/GF-5 PP for $24.48/jug. While not the $19.98/4.4L offer they did have, that price is still a heck of a deal on a high-quality syn that I thought would fade away, or at least be pushed to the sidelines. Weird - I thought PZ would 'force' PU on the public as the new value syn they wanted floks to use....
 
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
14,013
Location
Retired | Wausau, WI
The only thing the public pays any attention to is the $$$$$$$$$$$$$. If Shell would have enforced that issue, they would be out of the synthetic oil business. If they wanted to hold a gun to the retailers head (so to speak) they should have done it with three weights, 0W-20, European 5W-40, and European 5W-30. I believe those three products would sell.
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
9,571
Location
Canuck - moved to —> California —> Texas —> ???
Quote:
Weird - I thought PZ would 'force' PU on the public as the new value syn they wanted floks to use....
How could PZ "force" their new product as a "value syn" when the price is increased? If they just stopped making PP, nobody would buy PU at a higher price with no tangible benefit justifying it, it's that simple. Canadian prices have not settled in yet, but in US, PU is priced the close to Edge and M1EP, so it's not a value synth over there, and I have a feeling it will not be in Canada as well. I know that PU is the darling of BITOG, but it is obvious by now that general public doesn't care about factory clean claims of PZ. I don't think it's a failure of the product, but a failure of marketing. PZ should fire someone.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
885
Location
WI
I'd chalk it up to the majority of people don't see the benefit of spending ~another $4 us on a super premium syn. Maybe it's a combination of rising cost of living, poor economy, and that most oil change DIYers do it to save some $, plus have a good lube vs having dealer/qwik lube shop do it. Consumers won't be forced into buying a costlier product so long as comparable alternatives exist, particularly as oil prices are going up acoss the board. Some will if they think there's a benefit. I think it would be a poor decision to market PP less to try to boost PU sales. I bet if WM just gave comparable space on the oil rack that they give Edge and M1-ep, they'd prolly sell in comparible numbers. In a nutshell, like most premium offerings, it isn't going to be a sales leader. Most people want the best, want to spend the least, and usually buy down the middle= PP.
 

addyguy

Thread starter
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
15,229
Location
Canada
KrisZ, $36/5L IS a 'value price' for PU - it is a top-tier synthetic, at about $2-$4L LESS than other syns on the shelf - Edge at WM in Canada is $47/4.4L! So, I thought that PP at $20-$22 for 4.4L would be 'replaced' basically by PU at $36/5L....yeah, it's a higher price, but it's still a 'bargain'....I' just expressing suprise that in the era of new specs and rising oil prices, PZ is still offering a syn like PP for less that $6L, that's all.
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
2,563
Location
Pennsylvania
Since Pennzoil has not chosen to advertise PU as an extended drain oil, I think most folks look at their advertisement of cleaner piston skirt pictures and "fall asleep". I don't know of anyone using a good syn oil or a good dino with regular oil changes who has had an engine fail because of dirty parts. Only those who abuse oil and generate varnishes or sludge pay the price. I think Pennzoil needs to show some data to support why their claim to a very clean engine is important and why this oil does something for the guy on the road that their PP does not do. I have not seen that.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
705
Location
Canada
Interestingly, I've even seen PU at WM locally for less than PP. I don't recall the price at the time (very recently), but neither were on a rollback, and I have my new stash of QSUD to use up. As for paying more for a top-tier syn vs a mainstream syn, in my case, I don't think it makes sense - not deviating far from the factory OCI, though I do need the benefits of syn for severe service: extreme winter cold combined with short trips, summer towing duty and an engine who's predecessor had sludge issues.
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
3,058
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Boomer
Since Pennzoil has not chosen to advertise PU as an extended drain oil, I think most folks look at their advertisement of cleaner piston skirt pictures and "fall asleep". I don't know of anyone using a good syn oil or a good dino with regular oil changes who has had an engine fail because of dirty parts. Only those who abuse oil and generate varnishes or sludge pay the price. I think Pennzoil needs to show some data to support why their claim to a very clean engine is important and why this oil does something for the guy on the road that their PP does not do. I have not seen that.
YB gets your engine clean but PP gets it REALLY clean but PU gets it REALLY REALLY clean....how clean is clean? John
 
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
3,877
Location
Alberta, Canada
Exactly.... I see PU on the shelf for $36.88, then PP for $24.48, and PYB for $18+...PP is still the best deal for me and a lot of other people I see, and WM stocking more PP reflects this. Joe public isn't wooed by hyper-synthetics because they don't think their vehicle needs it. They want a value priced synthetic...and when its within $5 of the dino, they grab it. IMO, PU was never meant to replace or take a large chunk of the PP sales. PU was built to run with the other Hyper-synths but at a cheaper price point and its doing that. In my mind I see PP does 95% the job PU does, it will get my vote every time when they price it like they do. If it goes within 95% of the price of PU then I would either buy the PU, or head down to my local UFA and buy the Rotella 0w-30 on sale for $23.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
5,172
Location
Great White North.. eh
Originally Posted By: John_K
Originally Posted By: Boomer
Since Pennzoil has not chosen to advertise PU as an extended drain oil, I think most folks look at their advertisement of cleaner piston skirt pictures and "fall asleep". I don't know of anyone using a good syn oil or a good dino with regular oil changes who has had an engine fail because of dirty parts. Only those who abuse oil and generate varnishes or sludge pay the price. I think Pennzoil needs to show some data to support why their claim to a very clean engine is important and why this oil does something for the guy on the road that their PP does not do. I have not seen that.
YB gets your engine clean but PP gets it REALLY clean but PU gets it REALLY REALLY clean....how clean is clean? John
Well put. Plus, I've never paid more than $11.88 for a jug of PYB. That's half the cost of PP!
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
2,269
Location
NL, Canada
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I thought when Pennzoil Ultra came out, it would become PZ's flagship product, and other would 'fade' to the side. So I thought retailers that 'push' PZ products, like WM here, would promote this product a lot. When PU came out in Canada, after a bit, WM did have 5L jugs of 5W-20 and 5W-30 on for $36.88, which, honestly, is a steal for that calibre of oil. If they kept up that price, I figured they'd sell a lot, and it would be the main special prioduct they had. But that didn't happen - the PU didn't sell, got relegated to side counters, and just sits there, and I went into a WM on the weekend, and they had a HUGE display of 4.73L jugs of SN/GF-5 PP for $24.48/jug. While not the $19.98/4.4L offer they did have, that price is still a heck of a deal on a high-quality syn that I thought would fade away, or at least be pushed to the sidelines. Weird - I thought PZ would 'force' PU on the public as the new value syn they wanted floks to use....
The pricing is the same here. I stocked up on some PP during the 19.88 rollback period, as in Canada its a steal at that price and only little more than what dino goes for on regular price. When PU arrived, the rollback on PP ended and they put PP back to its regular $35.88 with PU priced $1 more. I'd love to see PP on another rollback. The Syntec in my sig is the last of my 5W30 syn that I have stashed (I've switched to 10W30 in summer, and just use 5W30 in winter), and I prefer having synthetic in the sump in the winter. In the summer I'm content with any decent oil and buy mostly on price (I have PYB, QS HM, and QS GB stashed as well). If they rollback PP again here I'll buy more for the winters to come. Its my favorite syn (I've never tried PU as its above my price ceiling) and a lot of bang for the buck on rollback. -Spyder
 
Top