Nummi plant podcast, the Toyota/GM joint venture

[babyivan]

So, I heard this great podcast a few years ago thanx to my brother who downloaded it for me.

It tells the story of GM and Toyota getting together to build the Corolla and Geo Metro at the Nummi plant in California.

This is a great listen for anybody, car guy or not!

The industrial/cultural differences between the US and Japan have enabled both countries to learn a thing or two on how to build a better product.

The link is directly playable in your browser, no downloading needed.

For those of you that prefer print over audio, here's a link to the transcript of it.


Let me know what you guys think.....

(If this has been discussed previously, I apologize)

 

[John_K]

"I worked with all the big three at the time, automakers, and it was common in all three automakers. They all believed that if the consumers think we have quality problems, it's because Consumer Reports is misleading them, and they're biased toward Toyota. They all believed that Consumer Reports was against them, that there was somewhat of a myth of Japanese quality."

Hmm...is this where the CR "bias" of today comes from?

John

 

[babyivan]

I was impressed on how well Toyota ran back in those days.

I had an 88 Camry 5 speed that was made in Japan (1 year before Kentucky started domestic Camry production), and that car was the most reliable/consistent car Ive ever owned!

It was plagued with the typical fender/wheel well rust issues of that era Camry, but otherwise a great car.

More recently though, they have become a victim of their own success; quality control has gone down drastically in order to meet the increased demand for their product.


John, I do agree with you on how the blame was shifted elsewhere, but as for CR bias; I do believe that they play favorites to a point (they are collectively human after all).
However, I also believe that if you build something good enough, they cannot deny it from becoming a "best buy" or making it to the top of one of their silly lists.

 

[shDK]

If we are all honest. The Japanese beated many old western industries on quality. No shame there. The big difference is how fast the western industries where to getting to the Japanese level of quality.

British carmakers died before getting there

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: shDK
If we are all honest. The Japanese beated many old western industries on quality. No shame there. The big difference is how fast the western industries where to getting to the Japanese level of quality.

British carmakers died before getting there


You're thinking only of recent automotive history with that kind of inaccurate generalization....

There was a time when western industry was the quality standard to which others aspired.

For example, Mercedes built the first car about 40 years before Japan built their first indigenous car, which was a copy of a Italian Fiat.

Duesenberg was far ahead of all other manufacturers in quality and performance long before Ferrari made his first car. The 320 HP Supercharged SSJ could hit 150 MPH and sustain it...in 1932. Many cars today still cannot equal the performance of a "Duesy"...

Back in 1917, about the time that the first automobile was being built in Japan, Packard introduced the first production V-12 engine in its "Twin-6" model...if we are all just being honest, there are elements that really don't support your thesis.

 

[shDK]

It,s never bin hardt to build excellent quality for a High Price. What the Japanese where good at was making high quality that people coult afford.

None of the makes you mentioned where for ordinary working people.

 

[babyivan]

I hope this thread doesn't become another one of those car company/country bashing threads.

I urge you to listen to the podcast that I put up in the first post of this thread before commenting.

 

[shDK]

Originally Posted By: babyivan
I hope this thread doesn't become another one of those car company/country bashing threads.

I urge you to listen to the podcast that I put up in the first post of this thread before commenting.


Well.. being Scandinavian I have very little relations with Japan. Besides driving a Mazda and occasionally eating sushi.

 

[ag_ghost]

I like that series but missed that episode; thanks for posting.

Sometime in the mid-90s, I was helping my mother buy a new car and the sales guy at the Toyota dealer (can't remember which one, but it was in Southern California) tried to tell me with a straight face that the Corolla was made with thicker steel than the Prizm ...

Kevin

 

[A_Harman]

I was a co-op student at GM when they formed the NUMMI joint venture. One of my girlfriends at school actually worked at the NUMMI plant. The joke went around GM at the time that the joint venture car between Toyota and Chevrolet was going to be called the Toyolet. GM was going to advertise that much of their best work had been done on the Toyolet. (I know that's where I come up with some of my best stuff.)

 

[babyivan]

Originally Posted By: ag_ghost
I like that series but missed that episode; thanks for posting. Sometime in the mid-90s, I was helping my mother buy a new car and the sales guy at the Toyota dealer (can't remember which one, but it was in Southern California) tried to tell me with a straight face that the Corolla was made with thicker steel than the Prizm ...

Kevin

No worries, definitely a great series!

Wow, the B+S that they will tell you to get you to buy a car!


Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I was a co-op student at GM when they formed the NUMMI joint venture. One of my girlfriends at school actually worked at the NUMMI plant. The joke went around GM at the time that the joint venture car between Toyota and Chevrolet was going to be called the Toyolet. GM was going to advertise that much of their best work had been done on the Toyolet. (I know that's where I come up with some of my best stuff.)

Haha, I love it.... the "Toyolet", that's classic!

 

[Papa Bear]

We have the CAMI plant just down the road. Some great product came (comes) from that plant.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: shDK
If we are all honest. The Japanese beated many old western industries on quality. No shame there. The big difference is how fast the western industries where to getting to the Japanese level of quality.

British carmakers died before getting there


And how are the Japanese companies doing now?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3232847/Toyota_a_recall_leader_for_4_o

Generalizations are no substitute for the truth....further, oversimplification obscures the truth.

I own 2 Toyotas... I am not biased towards any company or nation in my opinions about cars, but to simply say, "The Japanese beated many old western industries on quality" is just not supported by the facts.

 

[rjundi]

Great piece.

I really hope UAW has since been squashed like a bug as putting up with that is unbelievable.

 

[babyivan]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Great piece.

I really hope UAW has since been squashed like a bug as putting up with that is unbelievable.


agreed!

I'm a pro-union guy, but what the UAW did back then and what they did that helped put GM in the big slide of 2008, represented everything that's wrong with unions.

When a union gets too big and powerful and gets bad advice (not taking concessions and forcing GM's hand), everybody loses!

I'm not saying 2008 was completely the union's fault, but they sure had a hand in the demise.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Astro14


You're thinking only of recent automotive history with that kind of inaccurate generalization....

There was a time when western industry was the quality standard to which others aspired.

For example, Mercedes built the first car about 40 years before Japan built their first indigenous car, which was a copy of a Italian Fiat.

Duesenberg was far ahead of all other manufacturers in quality and performance long before Ferrari made his first car. The 320 HP Supercharged SSJ could hit 150 MPH and sustain it...in 1932. Many cars today still cannot equal the performance of a "Duesy"...

Back in 1917, about the time that the first automobile was being built in Japan, Packard introduced the first production V-12 engine in its "Twin-6" model...if we are all just being honest, there are elements that really don't support your thesis.


And your examples have nothing to do with repeatable quality but are one off low production performance technical benchmarks. In about all those cases you mentioned, none would be considered daily reliable drivers but "boutique" vehicles.

The Japanese brands delivery repeatable day in and day out everyday reliable vehicles on average above the domestics and even the European makes. Both the statistical and empirical data supports that on a running average.

 

[tom slick]

Too bad the NUMMI plant is gone, it's now Tesla's assembly plant. I toured it a few years ago, it was a neat place.

 

[babyivan]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
Too bad the NUMMI plant is gone, it's now Tesla's assembly plant. I toured it a few years ago, it was a neat place.


I read that GM is supposedly planning to buy Tesla. So that would mean the plant would come back to them, how ironic.

 

[HTSS_TR]

If GM buys Tesla, it will go down hill as fast as Pontiac.

 

[Silverado12]

There's a lot of GM bias here. I guess it's also fashionable to bash unions. The Japanese had better quality control and offered a more consistent product. That's it. Nothing really outstanding about their cars. Look at all the Japanese "classics" and you'll see what I'm talking about.