MolaKule
Staff member
That's the point, we don't know it has for sure.
All I am saying is let the hysteria die down, gather the facts, and then make a decision.
Not buying anymore GC
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Well, I've kind of already made up my mind. I don't like the fact that there is a single domestic source for GC (Autozone), and the fact that they are not always supplying the "green stuff". Besides, I cannot bring myslef to go more than 6000-7000 between oil changes, and there are PLENTY of oils that will work well for that interval... even SM/GF4 blends.
I guess I have started thinking it over, and I do not think I am getting any benfit from GC. MAYBE my wear numbers are a bit better than with other oils, but how much will that really help me over a 150k-200k engine life? I suspect that the engine will run just as well at 150k using another oil, even though it MAY show a few more ppm of iron at each oil change.
I am a GC "believer", and will use up my stash, but I think I've decided that this oil is not for me. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
That is, of course, unless Terry tells me that it is doing wonderful things for my engine when I send in my next sample. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
That is, of course, unless Terry tells me that it is doing wonderful things for my engine when I send in my next sample. Since my VW is under warenty I use an oil that lists their specs. The three that are easily avalible to me are GC, Mobil-1 0w-40, and Castrol 5w-40 (BC). BC is a hydrocracked oil and doesn't meet the VW 503.01 LL spec, so I see it as inferior to the other two. I just replaced the Mobil-1 0w-40 with GC. My observations are a quiter motor on startup and running, smoother performance, and 1.1 better average mpg. Also, the UOA's are clearly in favor of GC and it's shear stable. I do not care for the way Castrol does things either, but since we know the '04 batch is good stuff from our tests I'm stocking up on it. But, I understand your frustration and can't blame you for finding something else!
I'm not off of the GC bandwagon....yet. I have enough green GC to last me until the end of the year. I'm sure by the time my green stuff is used up, the true nature of the brown M05 batches will be known. IMO...no reason to panic. I realize Castrol has been responsible for some questionable marketing tactics, but I don't believe they'd stoop as low to put oil in bottles that doesn't meet mfgr specs as advertised. I think the ties between Castrol & VWAG are simply too strong to allow something like that to happen. I do accept the possibility that the brown GC may be a weaker product, but I'll remain optimistic about its specs & abilities.
quote:What WOULD be Castrol's legal liability if they DID put oil in the GC bottle that DIDN'T meet the advertised specs?
Originally posted by Brikhead: ...but I don't believe they'd stoop as low to put oil in bottles that doesn't meet mfgr specs as advertised.....
First of all I don't believe thay would do something like that as they are a good and ethical company. But, if they did, they would probably loose any agreement they have with VW, Volvo, and Land Rover, plus they would take a hit in Europe that would be hard to recover from.
FMF, I am waiting for the DOD lab to finish their elemental testing before pulling together a final report.These kind of facilities run on my payment to them and our collective tax dollars and are not in a big hurry.
I employed a major University Mass Spec Lab to perform the Electron impact and Chemical impact testing. I will not list the labs for proprietary reasons so get over it. The last thing they need is 6000 BITOG'ers calling to see what the molecules look like in their recent oil drain !
So one analyst with no agenda, 2 different well respected labs that are blinded to the actual oil formulation. One of the labs doing 2 different kinds of Gas Chromatagraphic mass spec testing.
I will share as much data as I can for ZOil here when I can.
The reference Zoil bottle derived from a vendor in the Midwest US was coded;
M023386BTAG785 2353
Who cares about agenda's when we can look at the results from data that we can trust.
I would like to know what "sinussoidal" testing is ?
I want to make it clear that I can be bought for a price ! So if the maker of Zoil or the other companies do not want any more data posted here for this unique lubricant please send check or money order for at least 1.5 million US dollars to our contact address.
My agenda is to make money interpreting test data ! ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif)
If you are suspect of Molkules or my agenda's after being at BITOG since inception then don't do business with us as you are the kind of customer no one but ***** can inform or please.
Cheers and enjoy learning more about lubes without brand bias.
If you are suspect of Molkules or my agenda's after being at BITOG since inception then don't do business with us as you are the kind of customer no one but ***** can inform or please.
Cheers and enjoy learning more about lubes without brand bias.quote:If it did happen, I think the fallout/pressure from VW alone would be enormous. I'm sure there are some big$$ contracts between the 2 companies and VW has become increasingly more anal about thier customers using VW spec oils. Castrol just has too much to loose from such a blunder. [ March 31, 2005, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Brikhead ]
Originally posted by wavinwayne:quote:What WOULD be Castrol's legal liability if they DID put oil in the GC bottle that DIDN'T meet the advertised specs?
Originally posted by Brikhead: ...but I don't believe they'd stoop as low to put oil in bottles that doesn't meet mfgr specs as advertised.....
Not to make reference to any locked threads, but I suppose some of you may be surprised to see Terry post the exact batch number from the bottle he tested.
I on the other hand am NOT surprised. Good job, Terry.
Not me. Terry and Molakule are stand up guys.
I honestly don't care what GC is made of. For professionals, it's important info. For oil buffs, it's interesting but for most consumers who just want high-end oil, the mfg specs are enuff to get the nod. This is how Audi dealers are selling the BC 5w-40, it's "good enough". I am somewhere in the middle of finding it interesting, because of my backround in H&SS makes me want to know the underlaying truths about products and not really caring. Also, because I have the responsibility of caring for a lot of expensive cars, I should know what works best and is cost/effective. Anyway, the fact is that GC is imported and exclusive in a non-mailorder sort of way. I really don't care what it is made of if it works and carries the approvals that take away the burden using it "of my own volition". I only care in as much as it is interesting. One thing I have learned here and by reading ALL the primary pleadings in the Mobil v Castrol case is that "synthetic" as a chemical definition IS met by the hydrocrack process. The everyday meaning is derived from Latin suntithenai "to put together" and implies something different. The chemical reference materials state that the substance merely be "changed substantially" to be defined as undergoing " synthesis ". Castrol was right, get over it. BTW- I would snatch up any Euro oil that was locally available and latest technology!!! It just so happens it's green and smells nice, all the better. OEM fill in Audis too. I did not come here with any brand loyalties and like Castrol, but usually buy Mobil, except for GC.
I always like to post this little linky for the nay-sayers.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82916482&contentId=6005377
[ March 31, 2005, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]
MolaKule
Staff member
We have currently approx. 350 pages of spectro with data files and more to come.
As we stated earlier, preliminary data show it to be a majority PAO with special complex, co-oligomer esters.
Like the wine commercial, we not disclose before it's time.
quote:Mola, And what a Fine Green Wine it is (was?)! And if it "turned to Gold" in '05..that's great too. The Gold color shown in Stinky Peterson's VOA post is quite attractive, I'm thinking. I'll be pleased to latch onto many ounces of "Fine Gold." You and Terry keep up the great work.
Originally posted by MolaKule: We have currently approx. 350 pages of spectro with data files and more to come. As we stated earlier, preliminary data show it to be a majority PAO with special complex, co-oligomer esters. Like the wine commercial, we not disclose before it's time.
![[Cheers!]](/forums/graemlins/cheers.gif)
(Ich bedenke dass "deutsches Gold" ziemlich schön ist.)Terry, $1.5 million is peanuts. Hold out fo ![[Happy]](/forums/graemlins/fruit.gif)
r $5 million
r $5 million![[Off Topic!]](/forums/graemlins/offtopic.gif)
Just think how confused/excited folks around here would be if Elf oils actually brought a green oil to market.With all the 02-04 and Amber 05 controversey, I have decided I am pretty much done with GC. If I am spending $5 per bottle for oil, I'd like to know what I am getting. With GC, it seems you can never be sure, unless you check date codes, odor, and color.
I have 17 qts of green stuff stached away, and once that is gone, I think I will move on to a new oil.
Castrol just lost a customer, since they cannot be more up-front with thier product labeling. At least Mobil Super-Syn seemed to be consistent from batch to batch.
Castrol just lost a customer, since they cannot be more up-front with thier product labeling. At least Mobil Super-Syn seemed to be consistent from batch to batch.M1 0w-40 costs less anyway. Thats the route I've been going.
MolaKule
Staff member
I have never used Castrol nor have I been able to find it locally, but I would recommend you wait for the BITOG sponsored report before making a final decision.
quote:MolaKule, What good is the BITOG sponsored report if GC's formula has changed for '05?
Originally posted by MolaKule: I have never used Castrol nor have I been able to find it locally, but I would recommend you wait for the BITOG sponsored report before making a final decision.
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