nonhonda ATF in a Z1 auto

[outersquare]

i came across this on honda-tech;

quote:

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Honda's mission with their own transmission fluids is to develop a single common fluid that will work in all of their transmissions.... That is auto, manual, and CVT. A friend of mine who used to work at Honda on transmissions sites several fluid evaluations where dexron comliant fluids were tested in the Honda transmissions, and it increased the torque holding capacity of the transmission by a noticeable amount. It also produced much firmer shifts. Basically... if you want to tow a trailer behind your Odyssey or Pilot, you should switch to a dexron fluid. The tests on the dexron fluids also showed no difference in durability.

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http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1195661

What's interesting is that firmer shifts generally means less slippage on the clutch packs/friction surfaces.

This would be interesting if say using mobil 1 ATF was the ghetto equivalent of putting in a shift kit on a honda auto tranny.

More comments always welcome.

 

[unDummy]

M1 ATF is now a multi-vehicle fluid. Whether its HFM'd enough to be as smooth as Z1 is for you to compare.

Simple comparison. Clutch material is just like a pencil eraser. Erase too hard and the eraser breaks off. Erase lightly still gets the job done and the eraser lasts a long time.

Increasing the line pressure or the number of clutches in the pack is a better way to increase the torque holding capability.
Increasing the line pressure, increasing fluid flow, and decreasing accumulation time, are better ways to quicken a shift.

 

[outersquare]

I should bolded this part for emphasis from the above qoute;

quote:

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A friend of mine who used to work at Honda on transmissions sites several fluid evaluations where dexron comliant fluids were tested in the Honda transmissions, and it increased the torque holding capacity of the transmission by a noticeable amount.

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That would be incredible if true.

 

[Schmoe]

That's generally what a shift kit will do. I tell you, this Z1 topic just keeps coming and coming. I still wouldn't replace Z1 with anything unless Honda officially blesses it.

 

[Schmoe]

How wait, it came from a forum. That's like saying I know a friend, who knows a friend, who knows a friends cousin...........

 

[outersquare]

quote:

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Originally posted by Schmoe:
How wait, it came from a forum. That's like saying I know a friend, who knows a friend, who knows a friends cousin...........

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sure that means the credibility is not very high, but it's an interesting claim that might warrant additional research. Hence this thread.

 

[outersquare]

quote:

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Originally posted by Schmoe:
That's generally what a shift kit will do. I tell you, this Z1 topic just keeps coming and coming. I still wouldn't replace Z1 with anything unless Honda officially blesses it.

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I will say one thing about this, the factory doesn't always know best for one person's specific needs.

Quick example, on my accord, the stock brake pads are known to leave deposits and thus cause shuddering during braking. Twice i tried OE pads and this problem kept returning. I tried hawk pads and the problem is gone.

 

[Auto-Union]

My SIL handed over her 90k Integra Auto to me for service. I intend to do 2 Dex flushes and then, if budget allows, another flush topped with 1q M1 and 2q of MaxLife. That's where I am at.

 

[The Critic]

AJ,

Just use Dex IIIH/Lubegard for two or three drain/fills. Even considering the usage of M1/Maxlife as a "final flush" is ludicrous.

 

[outersquare]

quote:

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Originally posted by Auto-Union:
My SIL handed over her 90k Integra Auto to me for service. I intend to do 2 Dex flushes and then, if budget allows, another flush topped with 1q M1 and 2q of MaxLife. That's where I am at.

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let us know how that goes

 

[Auto-Union]

Just to clarify. Drain and refill with Dex twice, this will be in the 50-100 mile range, fluid quality is unimportant, the point is to clean/clear the trans. When she gets back from her trip and lays some cash on me, I'll drain 3q again and refill with the 2q of MaxLife, which is Z1-"recommended", and a q of Mobil 1. I have this mix in our CRV now, no problems or issues at all.

 

[outersquare]

ok i did more digging about this and apparently alot of people with automatic preludes use mobil 1 atf.

i searched on google by "honda prelude z1 atf"

Nearly all the accounts say it works fine and has held up for 10s of thousands of miles.

 

[outersquare]

quote:

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Originally posted by Auto-Union:
Just to clarify. Drain and refill with Dex twice, this will be in the 50-100 mile range, fluid quality is unimportant, the point is to clean/clear the trans. When she gets back from her trip and lays some cash on me, I'll drain 3q again and refill with the 2q of MaxLife, which is Z1-"recommended", and a q of Mobil 1. I have this mix in our CRV now, no problems or issues at all.

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what year CRV is this?

 

[Steelers]

Safe bet is stick with Honda Z-1. I drain and fill every 10K and fluid is like new. These transmissions are different and if shift quality is important to you the best thing to do is stick with the Z-1. Its pricey but it works well.

 

[reyjay1]

maxlife may be recommended for Z1, but it is nowhere near the same in shift feel, and still requires the addition of FM's IMO. Tried it, the shifting was so much worse couldn't wait to get it out.

 

[Pablo]

Amsoil ATF works absolutely fine in current Honda Z1 applications. It is NOT recommended for CVT transmissions, as clearly stated.

 

[outersquare]

Ok I looked through the manual again and it says that you may use dexron III as a replacement if Z1 is not available, but continued use may affect shift quality and that it is recommended to switch back to Z1 when convenient.


So apparently it's not such a big deal if you use a dexron III fluid. And that the information on honda-tech may not be far off

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by unDummy:
Increasing the line pressure or the number of clutches in the pack is a better way to increase the torque holding capability.
Increasing the line pressure, increasing fluid flow, and decreasing accumulation time, are better ways to quicken a shift.

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Don't Hondamatics already work at fairly elevated line pressures when compared to conventional planetary gear automatic transmissions?

 

[FazerZ]

Ray H,

You're exactly right. Current production Honda transaxles use fairly high, steady line pressure (150psi+) and modulation of clutch apply pressures.

Even with clutch pressure control, Honda still uses fluid accumulators and their own fluid to achieve smooth shift quality.

Conventional automatics tend to use systems that match line pressure to input torque. More torque , More pressure.

Dexron III fluid will not cause a transaxle failure in a Honda transaxle. It will affect shift quality. Most people prefer the smooth, less perceived shift feel that Z1 is designed to give.

DH

 

[RH+G]

I have been using M1 in my Honda for about 7 years now. Works Fine. I have had a friend that has used redline for 3 years. Works Find. Anything else is highly not advised.