Non-DEXOS or manufacturer oil; voided warranties?

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Thanks to a very unfriendly welcome to the forum: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5325130#Post5325130 I have been forced to repost this topic, hope this information is helpful to provide a real life experience: I bought a 2011 Aveo in 2010. The car is soon to be 10 years old, and here is my experience. Chevy dealer I bought it from told me several times when I bought it to use DEXOS only oil or warranty would be voided. My dealer provided free oil changes as part of a promo for the first two years I owned the car, after that I've been doing my own oil changes. So, for the past 7+ years I've been changing my own oil with conventional spec Walmart oil for super cheap. I buy Supertech conventional oil (not synthetic) and I change it at about a 5k (8k kilometers) interval give or take. *PLEASE NOTE: I am not advocating for Supertech or any Walmart brand, I am using it as example, as any standard oil brand should work fine IMO. Just want to report to anyone interested, the car is a decade old, I drive a lot and recently rolled over 400,000km (that's over 260,000 miles for Americans reading) just within the past month. Engine runs fine. Its got some other issues, but oil and the engine aren't one of them. DEXOS as a requirement is a scam. Its a way for GM to make money by demanding royalties from oil companies and to encourage drivers to pay more for oil changes than necessary. These synthetics cost $80 a pop at most shops here in Ontario (that's Canadian, I'm not sure the price in the US), and for me to go to Walmart and get a low cost conventional oil and filter its barely $25. You do the math, I do 5 changes a year and I'm saving hundreds of dollars a year. So there is no need to be afraid. If DEXOS were really required, the engine would have blown by now. I don't even use synthetic, I use conventional same spec and change it regularly. Regular changing is more important than any other factor as long as its the same spec. I have never waited more than 10,000km between changes, and I often change it between 7-8k (under 5,000 miles). FURTHERMORE, there are federal laws that prohibit manufacturers from voiding warranties for not using their oil branding. The dealer and manufacturer might try and refuse warranty work, but all you do is call a lawyer and they'll bend your way before you even have to file suit. Trust me. Just wanted to add this for discussion and to have those who are curious use it as a reference. The fear about DEXOS and other manufacturer branded oils is, in my view, just a money making enterprise for the auto manufacturers and consumers should be aware. Based on my personal experience, it would appear that any engine problems you get are unrelated to whether you use DEXOS products or not. So if others out there are interested in saving, you can at least have your fear abated. I think 10 years and 400,000km is enough of a test to prove the point.
 
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The bigger question is why wouldn't you run a dexos oil? It's a prevalent spec and would be easier to get rather than hunting for a oil without the dexos spec
 

Mr_Jay

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Originally Posted by PimTac
The bigger question is why wouldn't you run a dexos oil? It's a prevalent spec and would be easier to get rather than hunting for a oil without the dexos spec
In my personal experience, I don't hunt for non-DEXOS. I hunt for the lowest possible cost while still meeting spec and doing it properly. Plus, I also buy in bulk. About once a year I go and buy supplies that should last, and I usually buy 5 or so bottles and 5 filters. It sits in my garage and I use it as necessary.The cost is almost always significantly less by buying what I've been buying all these years. I haven't always purchased Supertech, occasionally I've bought NAPA oil on sales, and Canadian Tire also has a private label brand they sell that I sometimes stock up on. But I don't recall DEXOS being labelled on any of the lowest cost options i've bought from any of these stores. Really, I wanted to shed light on the fear factor. People are afraid of blowing engines over this difference, I think its clear there is no need for what we're being told. The Aveo isn't GM's high quality top of the line model, so the fact I'm at this high mileage is a statement. I've got other issues, something electrical is shorting out, the transmission is slipping, but that is unrelated to the oil. The engine itself runs perfectly and I've made sure other servicing has been done over the years.
 
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Originally Posted by PimTac
The bigger question is why wouldn't you run a dexos oil? It's a prevalent spec and would be easier to get rather than hunting for a oil without the dexos spec
There's nothing "Special" about oil that carries the dexos label. Did you know, that even if you use GM's Dexos oil, they can and will deny a claim for excessive oil consumption?. Like the op said , it's a scam to get oil purchasers to use anyone's oil with Dexos on the label. If you don't believe us, call Blackstone and ask them whats so special about GM's oil.,,,
 
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I doubt if DEXOS is really necessary for a car as basic as the Aveo. However, I do believe that DEXOS is necessary for more modern GM cars and they're not going to exclude it since it's easier for dealers to stock one oil and make some more money while doing so. Since you're well out of warranty I would keep on keeping on. However, were I to buy a newer technology GM engine I'd certainly restrict myself to DEXOS.
 

Mr_Jay

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Originally Posted by BigCahuna
Originally Posted by PimTac
The bigger question is why wouldn't you run a dexos oil? It's a prevalent spec and would be easier to get rather than hunting for a oil without the dexos spec
There's nothing "Special" about oil that carries the dexos label. Did you know, that even if you use GM's Dexos oil, they can and will deny a claim for excessive oil consumption?. Like the op said , it's a scam to get oil purchasers to use anyone's oil with Dexos on the label. If you don't believe us, call Blackstone and ask them whats so special about GM's oil.,,,
Thanks, I just wanted to add one more real story to the mix so people can draw from. I just think what we're being told and what the reality is are two different things. And here in Canada I have been told by a consumer lawyer who is a family friend that we have legal procedures that force dealers to honour warranties without these manufacturer labels. I assume the law is much the same in the US. Dealers and manufacturers may threaten, or may initially deny service on warranty, but when you get a lawyers' office to phone the dealer, typically they cave instantly because they know they have no way to legally deny the claim. 99% of the time you don't actually have to file a claim in court to get them to honor warranties. I have never had to do this, but this particular consumer lawyer friend of mine has handled multiple cases regarding warranty denials. The more people that get this info, the better.
 
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Mr_Jay

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You guys can do what you want with the info, I don't really get into this nonsense of where to put it.
 
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Originally Posted by MrGoodwrench
Thanks to a very unfriendly welcome to the forum: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5325130#Post5325130 I have been forced to repost this topic, hope this information is helpful to provide a real life experience: I bought a 2011 Aveo in 2010. The car is soon to be 10 years old, and here is my experience. Chevy dealer I bought it from told me several times when I bought it to use DEXOS only oil or warranty would be voided. My dealer provided free oil changes as part of a promo for the first two years I owned the car, after that I've been doing my own oil changes. So, for the past 7+ years I've been changing my own oil with conventional spec Walmart oil for super cheap. I buy Supertech conventional oil (not synthetic) and I change it at about a 5k (8k kilometers) interval give or take. *PLEASE NOTE: I am not advocating for Supertech or any Walmart brand, I am using it as example, as any standard oil brand should work fine IMO. Just want to report to anyone interested, the car is a decade old, I drive a lot and recently rolled over 400,000km (that's over 260,000 miles for Americans reading) just within the past month. Engine runs fine. Its got some other issues, but oil and the engine aren't one of them. DEXOS as a requirement is a scam. Its a way for GM to make money by demanding royalties from oil companies and to encourage drivers to pay more for oil changes than necessary. These synthetics cost $80 a pop at most shops here in Ontario (that's Canadian, I'm not sure the price in the US), and for me to go to Walmart and get a low cost conventional oil and filter its barely $25. You do the math, I do 5 changes a year and I'm saving hundreds of dollars a year. So there is no need to be afraid. If DEXOS were really required, the engine would have blown by now. I don't even use synthetic, I use conventional same spec and change it regularly. Regular changing is more important than any other factor as long as its the same spec. I have never waited more than 10,000km between changes, and I often change it between 7-8k (under 5,000 miles). FURTHERMORE, there are federal laws that prohibit manufacturers from voiding warranties for not using their oil branding. The dealer and manufacturer might try and refuse warranty work, but all you do is call a lawyer and they'll bend your way before you even have to file suit. Trust me. Just wanted to add this for discussion and to have those who are curious use it as a reference. The fear about DEXOS and other manufacturer branded oils is, in my view, just a money making enterprise for the auto manufacturers and consumers should be aware. Based on my personal experience, it would appear that any engine problems you get are unrelated to whether you use DEXOS products or not. So if others out there are interested in saving, you can at least have your fear abated. I think 10 years and 400,000km is enough of a test to prove the point.
FYi..you're making an apples to oranges comparison. Oil Certs (ex DEXOS) are relevant with regards to the automakers recommended oil change interval. Using a generic oil at half the interval won't automatically void your warranty, but using it for the full oil change interval could give the automaker a reason to void the warranty for the affected part. So your claim is wildly inaccurate. IJS. And another point. Since cost is important to you, you're probably wasting a ton of $$ doing more frequent changes using no-name oil vs following the factory OCI on Dexos oil..
 
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Originally Posted by MrGoodwrench
You guys can do what you want with the info, I don't really get into this nonsense of where to put it.
There's no nonsense at all. That existing and current thread I linked is essentially the same subject about whether a manufacturer specification is required to be followed to preserve a warranty. Isn't that what your post is about?
 
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DEXOS is an oil specification. Just like Porsche A40, or Mercedes 229.5, or VW 508 etc. The engine maker has decided that certain oil characteristics are important to the longevity of the engine, based on engine design, maintenance intervals and taking warranty into consideration. These oil spec's will include criteria like viscosity, the ability to stay in grade over the specified maintenance interval, wear tests, NOACK, deposits and cleaning ability, and performance in certain possibly unique engine components, like turbo's or valve trains etc. But your statement that Dexos is a SCAM is not correct. It is simply GM, or any other engine maker with their own oil spec, having some control over the quality of oil used in the engines they WARRANTY. The only way an engine maker KNOWS the oil meets their specifications is to test it. Oils that meet their requirements can list that spec on the bottle. Is there some money involved ... sure, maybe. But at the end of the day, they are simply covering their behinds against warranty claims Don't go blaming the car maker for wanting a specific, VERIFIED quality of oil when THEY could be on the hook for millions of dollars of engine warranty claims if the engines don't last.
 
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Originally Posted by MrGoodwrench
Originally Posted by BigCahuna
Originally Posted by PimTac
The bigger question is why wouldn't you run a dexos oil? It's a prevalent spec and would be easier to get rather than hunting for a oil without the dexos spec
There's nothing "Special" about oil that carries the dexos label. Did you know, that even if you use GM's Dexos oil, they can and will deny a claim for excessive oil consumption?. Like the op said , it's a scam to get oil purchasers to use anyone's oil with Dexos on the label. If you don't believe us, call Blackstone and ask them whats so special about GM's oil.,,,
Thanks, I just wanted to add one more real story to the mix so people can draw from. I just think what we're being told and what the reality is are two different things. And here in Canada I have been told by a consumer lawyer who is a family friend that we have legal procedures that force dealers to honour warranties without these manufacturer labels. I assume the law is much the same in the US. Dealers and manufacturers may threaten, or may initially deny service on warranty, but when you get a lawyers' office to phone the dealer, typically they cave instantly because they know they have no way to legally deny the claim. 99% of the time you don't actually have to file a claim in court to get them to honor warranties. I have never had to do this, but this particular consumer lawyer friend of mine has handled multiple cases regarding warranty denials. The more people that get this info, the better.
Dexos is not a manufacturer, it's a performance spec. You're right that an automaker cannot demand you use their own brand oil, but that's NOT the same thing as requiring a certain performance spec. In other words, GM cannot say, "You must use our AC Delco brand oil. Any other brand will void warranty." But they CAN say, "You can use any brand oil you want, AS LONG AS it meets our performance specifications (Dexos)." And ALL manufacturers do this. Look in the owner's manual for ANY car, and it will at the very least require you use an oil that meets API SN (or whatever the latest API spec was when the car was manufactured). If you use an oil that's API SB in a newer car that's under warranty, and the oil turns to sludge and seizes the engine, the automaker can and will deny warranty coverage, as they should. Some cars have more specific requirements than just using the latest API spec oil. GM requiring Dexos is just one example. There's also BMW's LL specs, VW/Audi's 504 spec, Mercedes 229.5 spec, and so on.
 
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Originally Posted by geeman789
DEXOS is an oil specification. Just like Porsche A40, or Mercedes 229.5, or VW 508 etc. The engine maker has decided that certain oil characteristics are important to the longevity of the engine, based on engine design, maintenance intervals and taking warranty into consideration. These oil spec's will include criteria like viscosity, the ability to stay in grade over the specified maintenance interval, wear tests, NOACK, deposits and cleaning ability, and performance in certain possibly unique engine components, like turbo's or valve trains etc. But your statement that Dexos is a SCAM is not correct. It is simply GM, or any other engine maker with their own oil spec, having some control over the quality of oil used in the engines they WARRANTY. The only way an engine maker KNOWS the oil meets their specifications is to test it. Oils that meet their requirements can list that spec on the bottle. Is there some money involved ... sure, maybe. But at the end of the day, they are simply covering their behinds against warranty claims Don't go blaming the car maker for wanting a specific, VERIFIED quality of oil when THEY could be on the hook for millions of dollars of engine warranty claims if the engines don't last.
It's funny how a company that was on the brink of bankruptcy, bailed out by taxpayers, yet demand oil blenders to apply and pay for their special Dexos certs, to be used in their unreliable cars that were crappy to begin with, which was what lead their demise in the first place. The irony of it all goes full circle. As if Dexos oil would save their crappy cars in the first place, when you can run a Toyota or Honda with any off the shelf oil with no fancy cert oil and last twice as long. Out of all the certs, Dexos is the biggest joke, imo.
 
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FWIW I ran the value of a 2011 Aveo with quarter million miles on one of those valuation sites and it came back with 50 dollars, or about the cost of two jugs of Dexos spec oil.
 
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Originally Posted by BucDan
Originally Posted by geeman789
DEXOS is an oil specification. Just like Porsche A40, or Mercedes 229.5, or VW 508 etc. The engine maker has decided that certain oil characteristics are important to the longevity of the engine, based on engine design, maintenance intervals and taking warranty into consideration. These oil spec's will include criteria like viscosity, the ability to stay in grade over the specified maintenance interval, wear tests, NOACK, deposits and cleaning ability, and performance in certain possibly unique engine components, like turbo's or valve trains etc. But your statement that Dexos is a SCAM is not correct. It is simply GM, or any other engine maker with their own oil spec, having some control over the quality of oil used in the engines they WARRANTY. The only way an engine maker KNOWS the oil meets their specifications is to test it. Oils that meet their requirements can list that spec on the bottle. Is there some money involved ... sure, maybe. But at the end of the day, they are simply covering their behinds against warranty claims Don't go blaming the car maker for wanting a specific, VERIFIED quality of oil when THEY could be on the hook for millions of dollars of engine warranty claims if the engines don't last.
It's funny how a company that was on the brink of bankruptcy, bailed out by taxpayers, yet demand oil blenders to apply and pay for their special Dexos certs, to be used in their unreliable cars that were crappy to begin with, which was what lead their demise in the first place. The irony of it all goes full circle. As if Dexos oil would save their crappy cars in the first place, when you can run a Toyota or Honda with any off the shelf, no fancy cert oil and last twice as long. Out of all the certs, Dexos is the biggest joke, imo.
Nothing ironic about it when you understand that automakers (worldwide) are tasked with reducing the amount of oil consumed over the operating life of their product. Extending oil change intervals is the result. To suggest it's a scam just to "make money" is simply ignorance.
 
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Originally Posted by BucDan
It's funny how a company that was on the brink of bankruptcy, bailed out by taxpayers, yet demand oil blenders to apply and pay for their special Dexos certs, to be used in their unreliable cars that were crappy to begin with, which was what lead their demise in the first place. The irony of it all goes full circle. As if Dexos oil would save their crappy cars in the first place, when you can run a Toyota or Honda with any off the shelf oil with no fancy cert oil and last twice as long. Out of all the certs, Dexos is the biggest joke, imo.
You didn't seem to think it was that bad in a previous thread where you said:
Originally Posted by BucDan
I just hope GF-6 uses Dexos1-gen2 as the base lowest standard, or maybe even BMW's or Mercedes' standard as the baseline. That would benefit everyone.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by BucDan
Originally Posted by geeman789
DEXOS is an oil specification. Just like Porsche A40, or Mercedes 229.5, or VW 508 etc. The engine maker has decided that certain oil characteristics are important to the longevity of the engine, based on engine design, maintenance intervals and taking warranty into consideration. These oil spec's will include criteria like viscosity, the ability to stay in grade over the specified maintenance interval, wear tests, NOACK, deposits and cleaning ability, and performance in certain possibly unique engine components, like turbo's or valve trains etc. But your statement that Dexos is a SCAM is not correct. It is simply GM, or any other engine maker with their own oil spec, having some control over the quality of oil used in the engines they WARRANTY. The only way an engine maker KNOWS the oil meets their specifications is to test it. Oils that meet their requirements can list that spec on the bottle. Is there some money involved ... sure, maybe. But at the end of the day, they are simply covering their behinds against warranty claims Don't go blaming the car maker for wanting a specific, VERIFIED quality of oil when THEY could be on the hook for millions of dollars of engine warranty claims if the engines don't last.
It's funny how a company that was on the brink of bankruptcy, bailed out by taxpayers, yet demand oil blenders to apply and pay for their special Dexos certs, to be used in their unreliable cars that were crappy to begin with, which was what lead their demise in the first place. The irony of it all goes full circle. As if Dexos oil would save their crappy cars in the first place, when you can run a Toyota or Honda with any off the shelf, no fancy cert oil and last twice as long. Out of all the certs, Dexos is the biggest joke, imo.
Nothing ironic about it when you understand that automakers (worldwide) are tasked with reducing the amount of oil consumed over the operating life of their product. Extending oil change intervals is the result. To suggest it's a scam just to "make money" is simply ignorance.
If this were true for all car manufacturers and their specs, they'd offer the service to test the blender's oil for free and hold that cert for the lifetime of the formula, instead of having to renew the same formula every few years.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by BucDan
It's funny how a company that was on the brink of bankruptcy, bailed out by taxpayers, yet demand oil blenders to apply and pay for their special Dexos certs, to be used in their unreliable cars that were crappy to begin with, which was what lead their demise in the first place. The irony of it all goes full circle. As if Dexos oil would save their crappy cars in the first place, when you can run a Toyota or Honda with any off the shelf oil with no fancy cert oil and last twice as long. Out of all the certs, Dexos is the biggest joke, imo.
You didn't seem to think it was that bad in a previous thread where you said:
Originally Posted by BucDan
I just hope GF-6 uses Dexos1-gen2 as the base lowest standard, or maybe even BMW's or Mercedes' standard as the baseline. That would benefit everyone.
True. And I still stand by it. Don't get me wrong, Dexos as a standard as a whole, is great for what they are striving for. The irony for me comes in when you bring in a good oil standard, with subpar vehicles. Like you have 1 part of the equation great, but the other, not so much, and the final product ends up being subpar still.
 
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Hard to see the OP's point when you can get Dexos oil for the same price as non-Dexos. Even one brand he mentions (Motomaster) you can get Dexos certified oil for pretty darn cheap.
 
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Originally Posted by MrGoodwrench
DEXOS as a requirement is a scam. Its a way for GM to make money by demanding royalties from oil companies and to encourage drivers to pay more for oil changes than necessary. These synthetics cost $80 a pop at most shops here in Ontario (that's Canadian, I'm not sure the price in the US), and for me to go to Walmart and get a low cost conventional oil and filter its barely $25. You do the math, I do 5 changes a year and I'm saving hundreds of dollars a year.
The cheapest synthetic oil around here is Supertech, which is about $18 for a 5-qt jug. Supertech synthetic is a licensed Dexos oil. I usually stock up on Napa brand synthetic when it goes on sale for $3.49 per quart ($17.45 for 5 qts). Napa brand synthetic is also a licensed Dexos oil. Using Dexos does not cost consumers hundreds of dollars per year.
Originally Posted by MrGoodwrench
So there is no need to be afraid. If DEXOS were really required, the engine would have blown by now. I don't even use synthetic, I use conventional same spec and change it regularly. Regular changing is more important than any other factor as long as its the same spec. I have never waited more than 10,000km between changes, and I often change it between 7-8k (under 5,000 miles).
Apparently the main purpose of the Dexos spec is to ensure the oil is good for extended drain intervals, so the oil life monitor works properly without the oil turning to sludge. If you're not using the OLM and just changing every 5k miles, it's no surprise you haven't had problems using a non-Dexos oil. That doesn't mean that Dexos is a scam.
 
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