Non-API oil for TOYOTA?

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3,833
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NEPA
I've been lucky enough to be dealing with some monster-psycho "brainwashed" TOYOTA/Lexus owner who belives in super-extended ocis on a "premium" brand of oil and testing to support it. Fair enough. Seemingly, he rejects any and all notions that plain API oil will work fine and insists that his 1998 Lexus does not even require an API-licenced oil. I call bunk. Anyone have access to a TOYOTA manual or first-hand knowledge of their requirment?
 
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376
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Athens, Georgia
Well, so long as the testing is done objectively, and assuming he is willing to risk his money, why not? If I recall correctly, my manual from '93 does specify API certified oil. I've recently put Redline in it, which is not API certified, and I feel just fine about it. The rationality of the decision depends on the research done ahead of time.
 
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Akron, OH
Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Hard to google an answer: "Q: Can I use synthetic oil or oil additives in my Toyota? A: Toyota recommends Toyota Genuine Motor Oils, petroleum based or synthetic, for use in all Toyota vehicles. There are many other types of oil and oil additives on the market and each has its own unique characteristics. Toyota sees no detriment in the use of an oil that meets API standards provided you follow the recommended Toyota maintenance schedule. Even though it's more expensive, synthetic oil has a number of advantages over conventional motor oil. Synthetic oil performs and protects your engine better in both hot and cold temperatures. It reduces friction, thus increasing horsepower and decreasing fuel consumption. Synthetic oil minimizes on-going wear and deterioration in your engine which can result in longer engine life. Any damage caused by the use of motor oils that do not meet minimum API standards or oil additives not recommended in the owner's manual are not covered under the manufacturer's warranty." http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/1/wo/Home.Owners.FAQ-axJ6idrThnLG4LtsnY8gzg/0.5?o800012e%2ehtml
 
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6,435
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New Braunfels
Toyota currently specifically requires per my owners manuals ISLAC GF3 API SL "Energy conserving" 5w30 for my two new Toyotas. With an exception for the use of 10w30 if 5w30 cannot be obtained but to switch back to 5w30 on the next oil change. Since the Lexus in question is a '98 then I believe it is out of warranty everything is on the owners buck now. I see no reason not to expiriment if the owner wants too since he is ultimately responsible for the consequences.
 
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12,951
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Middlesex County CT
Probably not advisible since it even says 5W-30 SL on the oil filler cap of my '03 I don't have a problem with non-API oils (I use a non-api oil) but extending an OCI with non-api oil under warranty is juggling sticks of lighted dynamite.
 
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6,435
Location
New Braunfels
quote:
Originally posted by Auto-Union: He is recommending non-API oil to new car owners.
Then he must sell Amsoil? (sorry Pablo too fun to resist and it is directed at "other" dealers not you) Or he sounds at least like a cultist. Whatever his reasons it is hard to agree when his advise could effect someone else negatively.
 

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I have never experienced a person like this ever. Is is completely out of his mind. Claims membership here, but I did not see him in the directory. Since he is SUCH a basket-case, I will actually spare him the embarassment of naming and linking him. Possibly, I'll post an excerpt. It's the worst of the worst. Totally sad for any oil enthusiast.
 

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Is a group 3 good oil, sure when compared to a 2 or 1. Can it stay up with a group 4 or 5. not for long. Also the price of these oils [group 3] IS overpriced when I can buy a group 4 for about $0.02 more per qt; that has higher TBN, more ZDDP, higher HTHS, lower Noack, higher Cp etc etc. There is a reason why they are cheaper (not much) and performance and longevity of the group3 is lower then 4/5. Example, is take a group3 drive 10K and take a group4/5 and rive 10K miles. 1,000 to 1 the group 4/5 outperformes the group3 bigtime. Wow, you pay $2 for dinno oil?? You are getting hosed. I buy XXX for around $3 per qt. I have used been around long enough to know that you get what you pay for. That is why I drive a Lexus and not a cheap brand. Just look at your beloved Syntec in there used oil tests. Junk ZDDP, low TBn, high OXD, high NOX, higher wear.....My XXX with over 12K miles look better ALL AROUND I have tested my oils have you? I feel you can't afford it. Then again you are the same unedcuated person that thinks XXX is over priced. Synthetic was the way to go in my engines....all of them and it outperformed the others. Same in My gsxr, same in my wifes, same in my car. And when I had a diesel truck the class 3 oils died. They could no handle the soot and the turbo heat (coking etc)...Sorry, you loss another match. PLus when you can afford a lexus, then you will know you have matured and stepup into a real car with real class. Plus when my tractor costs more then your car..well, I like better items as I get older in life. It is passed ASTM & SAE spec it passes them, period. I only know since I work with these standards on a daily passes. To bad people without understandings put WAY to much faith in what an approval means. It means it meets the spec. No more no less. Again, a person in your situation and with this education is pretty clear. I guess all the fumes from clearing the floors at your job as taken it toll. I work in aerospace and NASA items and so far you H&SS degree would not get you cleaning floors. Why do you keep bring up crap like Porsche, VW, BMW??? Do you have any clue. Based on my oils tests (that I do) the oil is very good and still has much left in it. I doubt very much you even know what elements are in an oil analysis. Get a real education here. Then again you are the same moron that things Havoline is great along with Supertech (walfart filters). I do not expect you to understand these things. Out of your league. Besides the 1+mpg gain I am getting Again stop taking everyone oil tests and using them as gospel here since it makes you look foolish. Do some oil tests yourself and see what they are (I posted above several times). Stop acting like you did for your H&SS degree (cutting and pasting) and really do some work here. I guess this is the type of person they molded in your school. I looked at your Pennzoil Platinum, looks weak in Moly, Boron, Ca and ZAAP. Unless you are using their 15w-40, the rest is very low, pretty sad There are also many other oils that pass 229.3, along with Mercedes Benz 229.5, VW 502, 505 & 505.01. Plus the ACEA A3 and A5 is more important then MB for example. Well here is you “world pimping GC”: Looks low in ZDDP. Why not compare them to your oil samples you have. Oh wait, you were the one who does not have any data! So you have NO empirical data to support YOUR post; other then others peoples tests and “hope for the best” that it is inline with yours? What a method to show good judgment. Again for the 24th time, you need to do testing yourself I do not need to do testing at all. I spend $28 for a group 4/5 oil with filter that can go up to one year Don’t feel bad since you can’t afford a better oil then an Autozone one.
 

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My (summarized) response: To summarize: You can use something like XXX, pay top-dollar and run it beyond the manufacture's stated intervals to justify the additional cost. Risk sludge, deposits and excess wear. In the process, you will void your warranty both by exceeding the change interval and using a non-API Approved oil. Plus you have to do oil testing to "verify" the results and you have to join a Cult of Psychos who obsess about validating the results and seek the approval of other Cult Members and new recruits. -OR- You can use a well-formulated otc motor oil at perscribed interval as the owner's manual states. Preserve your warranty and save a LOT of money while achieving better/best results. Choosing the actual brand of oil is secondary, as long as it carries the API rating, you can pick by colour of the bottle, brand that your Grandpa used, recommendation of a friend or be a bit more analytical and take a look at used oil analysis results that pertain to your engine type and desired oil/change interval. Simple? I think so. Some of the links I posted to support my assertions: Your TOYOTA engine, 10k on German Syntec -no problems http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=002849#000000 German Syntec at 11k vs AMSoil in same engine, Toyota Landcruiser AMSoil = high copper http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=002070 Another 10k run in the TOYOTA 5VZFE with German Syntec, perfect results. (cheap STP filter none the less...Champion Labs, same as SUPERTECH!) http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=002384 Shell G-III Synthetic in TOYOTA 8000+ miles http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=002004#000000 1.5 years in TOYOTA 5VZFE truck fully loaded with Chevron (Havoline) Lower wear than AMSoil http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=002004#000000 TOYOTA 5VZFE with AMSoil ASL, shot at 5000 miles http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=000670 and: 2006 RSX Owner's Manual: "Always use a Premium-Grade detergent oil displaying the American Petroleum Certification Seal" Change interval: 10,000 miles (normal service) 5000 miles (severe service) I think I'll be ok at 6000 miles with a proven oil carrying the API Seal....unless you think Honda is wrong and and can prove it. Thanks for the friendly advice though
 

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He CONTINUALLY rants on how it's not possible to draw ANY conclusions from another person's UOAs, even if it is the same engine and oil/change interval you are interested in. There is a high degree of berratment because I don't do my own testing. I personally feel you can draw inferences from the fact that if a given oil in a given engine can do fine over a given (preferably short) distance, it might work for you too. The guy never responds directly to anything except the most narrow points that he is interested in, refusing to acknowledge that cheap oil can go as far as he is USING his brand, plus paying for testing etc. Major-mega psycho that these excerpts can't even begine to reveal. If anyone wants the actual 7-page link, PM me. I PROMISE it will not dissapoint.
 
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6,435
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New Braunfels
I can now understand your frustration. The best revenge is living well. This individual has an inferiority complex. Don't argue with him he is obviously better than you because he spends mre than you and is soooo smart. Pity him, put him on ignore and post independently of him on subject manner concerning this subject. This type of individual is exactly what ignore features were made for. No ignore feature? Pretend.
 

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I like the part where he says ACEA (A3) is more important than MB 229.3. I explained that mfg specs are based on ACEA and some Dinos and Blends pass A3....not addressed in his follow-up.
 
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4,478
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Southern California
Auto-Union, post his address. I have some lowly dino motor oil changed out from my latest 3,000 mile interval out of my 279,000+ mile '89 Toyota truck that needs disposing of. His front lawn sounds ideal...
 
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8,937
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SC
quote:
Originally posted by Quest: Auto-Union- If you know he is not right, don't waste your effort to "assimulate" him to take on your perspectives/understandings.
Interesting word choice there. Or did you mean "assimilate"?
 

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3,833
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He's stuck in the "looking at a VOA add pack to judge an oil" mentality. As-if Syntec could not be blended with a lil more ZDDP or even some SLOB. A high point was when I countered by explaining that "cars don't have class, people have class, but only SOME people". Bryan nailed it, as I knew after a few posts with the guy, a extreme superiority-complex.
 
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