No oil in filter after removal - '99 Camry (5S-FE 2.2L)

[92saturnsl2]

Due to the filter's location (see photo), I expected a sea of oil to run down the block. I prepared the area underneath with disposable towels, etc. When I pulled the filter off, not a drop came out-- inside or outside the filter. Can't really see much at all inside the filter and if I turn it upside down, nothing comes out. In all my years of changing oil on various makes/engines, this is a first for me; there is always some mess or residual oil hanging around.

I'm a little intrigued by this. Filter in question is a Fram Ultra/XL (whatever the expensive gold can is called) and the ADBV appears fully functional. Either this is a really great design or something is wrong. Which one is it? Engine makes no startup noise and oil pressure comes up quickly as best as I can tell (oil light immediately shuts off). I should note that the filter was changed within an hour or two of shutting down the engine. There was zero cleanup done before taking this photo other than wiping off the gasket mating surface which had some light residue on it.

 

[fantastic]

First time noticing that on this car?

 

[92saturnsl2]

First time noticing that on this car?

First time changing the filter on this car, it's new to me. Curious if this is something unique to this engine (or a potential problem) because I've never seen a filter come off this clean before.

 

[ripcord]

I changed the oil on a 2000 Camry with a 2.2 recently and had the same things happen. Can't remember the type of oil filter, but I think it was a cheap jobber.

Edit: I went out and dug through my bucket of used filters and four that it was a Service Champ. It definitely had oil circulating through it.

 

[dishdude]

I know nothing about these engines, (but that won't stop me from posting!) is there some type of a bypass built into the block that could be stuck?

 

[fdcg27]

I know nothing about these engines, (but that won't stop me from posting!) is there some type of a bypass built into the block that could be stuck?

This.
That filter has never had oil flowing through it.

 

[Urshurak776]

The oil in there has not been filtered......that filter is brand new. You have an issue....

 

[Hootbro]

Pretty sure that was in the middle of the oil burning and sludging years of that engine type. I would be popping the valve cover and taking a peek.

 

[ZeeOSix]

There is oil residue on the filter base plate. No way it wasn't flowing any oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I should note that the filter was changed within an hour or two of shutting down the engine.

If it drained out that fast, there must be a pretty good leak path past the ADBV.

This filter must mount base down and nearly vertical since it's sitting on it's dome under the force of gravity in the photo.

 

[supton]

That's what I recall. I only ever did stone-cold oil changes on my 5S-FE and the filter always spun off "dry" like this. 92% sure that when I sliced open the filter though it would have oil in it. Oil changes were snap when cold, no leaks on the engine from the filter, unlike my CRV which likes to put oil onto the frame and wherever...

I only made it to 268k on mine before it was wrecked, so I have no idea if had any effect on engine longevity. The oil pump is located nearby so it's not a far distance for oil to pump up to.

 

[fantastic]

Cut filter open and see what media looks like? If it's dry then obvious problem but if wet than not much other than leaking down past ADBV. That's all I got.

 

[twX]

The same thing happens on modern Subarus that have the oil filter mounted base-down on top of the engine. Over time, some oil leaks out somewhere, air leaks in, and since the filter is the highest point in the system, it's the part of the system where the air pocket settles. The filters are usually dry within an hour or two of shutting off the engine.

This type of drainage might happen on engines with more traditional filter locations as well, but in those cases the air pocket probably won't end up being in the filter. It'll end up settling somewhere higher in the oiling system where it won't be able to trigger our OCD.

If the oil pressure light is shutting off quickly, I wouldn't be concerned about it.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I'm going to cut the filter open. The filter is definitely wet inside but hard to see the oil as it was only run about 150 miles. It's just not full like I'm used to.

I just did a bunch of engine work (including oil pump / valve cover reseal) and I know some crud got down there. So I left old filter on (date written on it says 4/2024) and changed the oil with all the partial/orphan bottles I had laying around that I wanted to get rid of. Put enough miles on it to be sure the engine leaks have been solved, now I'm changing it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The same thing happens on modern Subarus that have the oil filter mounted base-down on top of the engine. Over time, some oil leaks out somewhere, air leaks in, and since the filter is the highest point in the system, it's the part of the system where the air pocket settles. The filters are usually dry within an hour or two of shutting off the engine.

The filter on my V6 Tacoma is mounted vertical with the base down. It holds oil quite well, even after days of sitting. I have to punch a hole in the dome of the filter to make it drain when I do an oil change. As you elude to, depending on the engine design, the filter might drain down even if the ADBV is working well. Apparently, that doesn't happen on my Tacoma.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Here's the photos of the cut-open filter. It's had some oil in it for sure, but nothing came out as you can see from the bottom of the oil drain pan.

The below image is a couple of filters that have been sitting on the shelf waiting to get cup open. Pretty sure they came off my Nissan Maxima (filter mounted sideways). They were chock full of oil and I always leave them to drain in a pan for a few hours before I put them away. Very different experience.

 

[Blueshound]

I changed the oil on dozens of these engines and this is normal. No idea why they drain so completely, but as a mechanic I took the win every time.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I changed the oil on dozens of these engines and this is normal. No idea why they drain so completely, but as a mechanic I took the win every time.

I'm beginning to think it's a fluke of the engine design and therefore normal. I replaced the oil filter with a Motorcraft FL-400S which has a decent holding capacity (perhaps 1/2qt give or take). Filled engine to where dipstick read full, about 3 quarts and change. Started engine with new filter (oil light shut off very quickly) for a couple minutes, then shut off and took a 30 minute break. Came back and oil level was at the bottom hatch mark.

That seems a good benchmark to tell whether filter is holding the oil. I'll check after 24 hours and if it's moved appreciably past the bottom hatch mark, then it's clear that some oil is making its way from the filter back to the pan.

 

[ripcord]

This isn't the first thread on BITOG about this.

N

Thread '1994 Camry 5SFE Empty Oil Filter'

Jul 5, 2005

When changing the oil in my 1994 Camry 5SFE, after letting the engine sit for 10 minutes while draining the oil, when replacing the oil filter, not one drop spills, the filter is completely empty! The filter is mounted at a 45 degree angle open side down. Have tried many different types of oil filters, WIX, Toyota, etc. all with the same result. Is this normal for this engine? Have neven experienced an oil filter emptying so quickly or completely in my life. I know my filter has to refill every time I start my car if it has sat longer than 10 minutes, very disconcerning. It has the donut...

• noodlerooney
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Engine Oil Filters

 

[twX]

The filter on my V6 Tacoma is mounted vertical with the base down. It holds oil quite well, even after days of sitting. I have to punch a hole in the dome of the filter to make it drain when I do an oil change. As you elude to, depending on the engine design, the filter might drain down even if the ADBV is working well. Apparently, that doesn't happen on my Tacoma.

How high does the filter sit relative to the rest of the engine? On my Subaru, the entire oiling system sits below the filter due to the boxer engine design. On the Tacoma, there might still be a good amount of volume in the oil passages to the head and timing system that are higher than the filter and where air pockets might form instead. Or maybe there just isn't as much leakage.

Since I made the post a couple of weeks ago about the oil light testing with different filters on my Subaru, I've taken a closer look at some studies that measure oil pressure rise over time in different parts of an oiling system on a cold start. It seems typical that dozens of engine revolutions are required to pressurize the furthest parts of an oiling system, equivalent to hundreds of ml of oil needing to be pumped. So there must be a good amount of drainage that normally occurs.