did you try a 5w20?
No more startup rattle after switch to Bosch D3410
- Thread starter Falcon_LS
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DinoLover
I'm talking about the experiences posted up by members on this thread.
The OP said he has always had this noise until he moved to Bosch D3410. The ADBV on Motorcraft FL820S and Bosch D3410 is identical. He is surprised the sound went away.
CROWNEVIC4LIFE said his 2 Grand Marquis and 1 Crowne Vic all from different years have always done this. The 2 Grand Marquis have always had Motorcraft filters, the Crowne Vic had all sorts of filters but made the same sound.
Well, apparently it's just a characteristic of that particular Ford engine, regardless of what filter is used.
Maybe it's due to the top end bypass valve.
I'm smelling something fishy here.
I no longer have start up rattle since using the Bosh 3410 Filter..I have using it for about a month now..The Grand Marquis will be getting the Bosh D3410 in the near future.
The start up rattle has been going on almost daily in my 05 4.6 Vic since I get it at the end of 05 with 20K miles on it..My 99 4.6 had start up rattle for the entire time I had which was almost 7 years and 200K miles with Motorcraft filters..Sometimes only after 6 hours I would get start up rattle.
I am surprised the Bosh D3410 did what the Motorcraft Filter could not.
I thank Falcon LS for telling me about the Bosch D3410.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DinoLover
I'm talking about the experiences posted up by members on this thread.
The OP said he has always had this noise until he moved to Bosch D3410. The ADBV on Motorcraft FL820S and Bosch D3410 is identical. He is surprised the sound went away.
CROWNEVIC4LIFE said his 2 Grand Marquis and 1 Crowne Vic all from different years have always done this. The 2 Grand Marquis have always had Motorcraft filters, the Crowne Vic had all sorts of filters but made the same sound.
Well, apparently it's just a characteristic of that particular Ford engine, regardless of what filter is used.
Maybe it's due to the top end bypass valve.
I no longer have start up rattle since using the Bosh 3410 Filter..I have using it for about a month now..The Grand Marquis will be getting the Bosh D3410 in the near future.
The start up rattle has been going on almost daily in my 05 4.6 Vic since I get it at the end of 05 with 20K miles on it..My 99 4.6 had start up rattle for the entire time I had which was almost 7 years and 200K miles with Motorcraft filters..Sometimes only after 6 hours I would get start up rattle.
I am surprised the Bosh D3410 did what the Motorcraft Filter could not.
I thank Falcon LS for telling me about the Bosch D3410.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
did you try a 5w20?
5W-20 and 5W-40 are both 5W at startup, wouldn't make a difference. Having said that, there's no way I'm running 5W-20 given ambient temperatures here exceed 130 F. Ford recommends 10W-30 in the manual.
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
I no longer have start up rattle since using the Bosh 3410 Filter..I have using it for about a month now..The Grand Marquis will be getting the Bosh D3410 in the near future.
The start up rattle has been going on almost daily in my 05 4.6 Vic since I get it at the end of 05 with 20K miles on it..My 99 4.6 had start up rattle for the entire time I had which was almost 7 years and 200K miles with Motorcraft filters..Sometimes only after 6 hours I would get start up rattle.
I am surprised the Bosh D3410 did what the Motorcraft Filter could not.
I thank Falcon LS for telling me about the Bosch D3410.
Excellent news!
Even though the PRV is at the dome end, I plan on going back to it at the next oil change.
did you try a 5w20?
5W-20 and 5W-40 are both 5W at startup, wouldn't make a difference. Having said that, there's no way I'm running 5W-20 given ambient temperatures here exceed 130 F. Ford recommends 10W-30 in the manual.
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
I no longer have start up rattle since using the Bosh 3410 Filter..I have using it for about a month now..The Grand Marquis will be getting the Bosh D3410 in the near future.
The start up rattle has been going on almost daily in my 05 4.6 Vic since I get it at the end of 05 with 20K miles on it..My 99 4.6 had start up rattle for the entire time I had which was almost 7 years and 200K miles with Motorcraft filters..Sometimes only after 6 hours I would get start up rattle.
I am surprised the Bosh D3410 did what the Motorcraft Filter could not.
I thank Falcon LS for telling me about the Bosch D3410.
Excellent news!
Even though the PRV is at the dome end, I plan on going back to it at the next oil change.
Sorry Falcon but no. The 5w40 will still be way heavier at start up, the rating system doesn't quite work that way. That said, I don't know that I would run 5w20 in your world either.
Maybe split the difference and try a 10w30 or maybe even a 5w30.
Better yet, you seem to enjoy working on your car, why not get Oil Pressure and Temperature gauges and install them? Then you could see how close you are to the lower limit and know if you have any room.
Maybe split the difference and try a 10w30 or maybe even a 5w30.
Better yet, you seem to enjoy working on your car, why not get Oil Pressure and Temperature gauges and install them? Then you could see how close you are to the lower limit and know if you have any room.
Sorry, let me clarify that a bit.
The 5w40 would be heavier statistically. At your average start up temps, I don't know that it would make a lot of difference. Any oil is going to be fairly fluid at 50C, more so than what most people see here.
The 5w40 would be heavier statistically. At your average start up temps, I don't know that it would make a lot of difference. Any oil is going to be fairly fluid at 50C, more so than what most people see here.
I don't know my Crown Vics well, but are either of these 3V 4.6 or are they 2V? I know the '99 would have been a 2V.
The Bosch D3410 is a highly efficient filter... 99% @ 20um, which would make it MORE restrictive than the FL820s which is only about 94% @ 20 um. Not that I think "restriction" is an issue here.
I find it interesting that Falcon still had the rattle even with 5W40, which many claim cures such things in the Mods (I don't believe that but...) and Crownvicforlife is using 5W20 and shares the problem. Pretty divergent viscosities... same problem
If the startup rattle is due to the oil filter, it's the ADBV. Otherwise it's an engine issue (not necessarily serious, but with the chain tensioners most often on Mods). Beyond this, the mere fact of a filter change doesn't make sense unless we assume the ADBVs on the vaunted MC are no longer what they once were or that the Bosch is that much better.
The other possibility, and this just occurred to me so I say it not standing on my filtration uber alles soapbox, is that the increased efficiency of the Bosch vs the MC has something to do with it. I can't think of how that would have an immediate effect, though. If an infusion of clean oil was the answer, then the effect would go away at the oil change and gradually come back as the contamination level of the oil rose. Both of you state the problem was constant until the addition of the new filter.
I've never heard a startup rattle in my 5.4L, though the engine is generally noisier when cold, and I have used three filters on it, FL820, Royal Purple and P1.
We may never know the ins and outs of this particular situation, though I doubt the speculation will stop, but at least two owners can bask in the warm joy of no more rattles.
The Bosch D3410 is a highly efficient filter... 99% @ 20um, which would make it MORE restrictive than the FL820s which is only about 94% @ 20 um. Not that I think "restriction" is an issue here.
I find it interesting that Falcon still had the rattle even with 5W40, which many claim cures such things in the Mods (I don't believe that but...) and Crownvicforlife is using 5W20 and shares the problem. Pretty divergent viscosities... same problem
If the startup rattle is due to the oil filter, it's the ADBV. Otherwise it's an engine issue (not necessarily serious, but with the chain tensioners most often on Mods). Beyond this, the mere fact of a filter change doesn't make sense unless we assume the ADBVs on the vaunted MC are no longer what they once were or that the Bosch is that much better.
The other possibility, and this just occurred to me so I say it not standing on my filtration uber alles soapbox, is that the increased efficiency of the Bosch vs the MC has something to do with it. I can't think of how that would have an immediate effect, though. If an infusion of clean oil was the answer, then the effect would go away at the oil change and gradually come back as the contamination level of the oil rose. Both of you state the problem was constant until the addition of the new filter.
I've never heard a startup rattle in my 5.4L, though the engine is generally noisier when cold, and I have used three filters on it, FL820, Royal Purple and P1.
We may never know the ins and outs of this particular situation, though I doubt the speculation will stop, but at least two owners can bask in the warm joy of no more rattles.
Update..
I now have start up rattle [for about 3 seconds] with the Bosch D3410 filter..It does not matter what filter I put on the 4.6 Vic when it comes to start up rattle so once I use up my next Bosch filter I will probably go back to Motorcraft filters as I really do not need a long distance filter since I change my oil and filter out at around 7500 miles.
I now have start up rattle [for about 3 seconds] with the Bosch D3410 filter..It does not matter what filter I put on the 4.6 Vic when it comes to start up rattle so once I use up my next Bosch filter I will probably go back to Motorcraft filters as I really do not need a long distance filter since I change my oil and filter out at around 7500 miles.
water is water no mater where you live.
My dad has a 2006 Lincoln Town Car, 4.6, 45K miles. He has owned it since new and always uses any 5W20 oil that is on sale (currently Havoline) with a MC filter. Since new the engine has always had the 1-2 second tick/rattle upon startup. The only thing F/L/M recommended was to try a 0W20 oil. He never has. F/L/M claims ALL 4.6s do the same thing.I said "[censored]" to that. He owned a 1993 LTC, 4.6 and used 5W30 and a MC filter, but it NEVER made noise upon startup.
Not that it is exactly the same, but my company van is now around 33K on it's 2V 4.6, and I have yet to hear a startup rattle. I have been changing the oil religiously at 5K miles (the severe service schedule) to try to prevent the chain wear & noise that seems common on the OHC Ford V8s. The VIOC that changes the oil has been using the Valvoline Puro Classic clones with the nitrile ADBV, with 5W20.
I can't really add to this conversation except to answer Jim Allen's question: The 3V 4.6 was never installed in any Crown Vic or Grand Marquis. They all got 2Vs except for the Marauder which got the 4V.
The rule of thumb used to be if you had start-up rattle, use the MC filter. Apparently, this is not valid 100% of the time. Case in point: my ex-wife's Marauder has had a weird start-up noise since we acquired it in 2007 with 85,000 miles. It now has over 170,000 and still makes the same sound. Always used MC filters. I've given up being concerned. OTOH, my Marauder (bought new) has never made a peep on start-up, and it sits for weeks at a time, and all winter every year. My recently-acquired 2000 Grand Marquis with 124,000 makes no start-up noise, either.
The rule of thumb used to be if you had start-up rattle, use the MC filter. Apparently, this is not valid 100% of the time. Case in point: my ex-wife's Marauder has had a weird start-up noise since we acquired it in 2007 with 85,000 miles. It now has over 170,000 and still makes the same sound. Always used MC filters. I've given up being concerned. OTOH, my Marauder (bought new) has never made a peep on start-up, and it sits for weeks at a time, and all winter every year. My recently-acquired 2000 Grand Marquis with 124,000 makes no start-up noise, either.
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