No dipstick

T-Keith · Feb 17, 2004

What do you guys think of this? GM does not put a dipstick on their 4T45E trannys. Instead there is a plug to fill, but no dipstick. Ford does the same on their Explorer.

My sister purchased a Malibu with 60,000 miles. I would like to change the transmission fluid, as I'm sure it's never been changed. How should I do this, if there is no way to tell how much to add back in?

-T

labman · Feb 17, 2004

Back in March when I first came here, there was quite a bit of discussion on this point. I don't know the model, but the Getrag 5 speed on my 02 Cavalier with the Ecotec engine is the same way. The worst part is that my 92 Grand Am with the Muncie box did have a dip stick and it came from the factory low. I paid $10 for a quart of GM Synchromesh and used a couple of ounces to top it up. Never had to add more before trading on the Cavalier at 180K. I guess hope for the best.

Cutehumor · Feb 17, 2004

if there is a drain plug, drain into gallon jugs. fill new transmission fluid with amount drained from gallon jugs. or if it has oil fill hole but no drain plug, suction out the fluid as best you can and fill new fluid through oil fill hole. measure amount suctioned to get accurate fill amount

Whimsey · Feb 17, 2004

My wife's 2002 Explorer does not have a tranny dipstick, as you said. To change or even check the fluid level involves a computer and a complicated procedure. It doesn't seem top be a do it yourself job anymore. Heck, Ford doesn't even recommend changing the ATF fluid ever

! I just took it to the dealer and had them do a ATF fluid exchange at 30,000 miles. They charge $110 but it's a lot cheaper than buying a new or rebuilt tranny

. We're rapidly approaching the era of the expensive disposable vehicle if you listen to the manufactures for service maintence intervals.

Whimsey

T-Keith · Feb 17, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Cutehumor:
if there is a drain plug, drain into gallon jugs. fill new transmission fluid with amount drained from gallon jugs. or if it has oil fill hole but no drain plug, suction out the fluid as best you can and fill new fluid through oil fill hole. measure amount suctioned to get accurate fill amount

No drain plug, but even still; how would you know it was at the proper level in the first place.

I researched a little further and found out there is a check plug on the side of the tranny. To check it you must put both ends of the car on jackstands and check fron underneath, while the car is running.

Does this sound rediculous to anyone else?

-T

Eiron · Feb 17, 2004

Original Bugs (& I'm sure some other vehicles) had a side-mounted fill plug for their trannies. The idea was, you filled it with the car off, & when you got up to within some distance of the edge of the hole you were filled (you could check by sticking your finger in & feeling for fluid, but I'm sure VW had a special tool for it). You couldn't overfill it 'cuz it would all just run back out of the hole.

T-Keith · Feb 17, 2004

Yes that's how most manual transmissions are filled, but this is an automatic. You must check it with the car running and at operating temperature.

-T

Ray H · Feb 17, 2004

The job is a cinch once you have an electro-hydraulic shop lift installed in your garage. Note: you may also need to remodel your garage or home to accomodate the car's lifted height.

(and domestic auto manufacturers wonder why their market share continues falling...)

cousincletus · Feb 17, 2004

I just changed the fluid in my '02 Cavilier five speed over to Amsoil ATF and it was easy. For you five speed people, the drain plug is a torx head located on the drivers side of the tranny. The fill/level plug is facing the rear and is a 9mm allen. Capacity is about 1.8 quarts. Procedure is to drain fluid, replace plug, remove fill/level plug, refill tranny through the hole on top with the red cap on it. Use a transmission funnel and fill until fluid runs out of the fill/level hole. Don't forget to replace the plugs. My old fluid at 16,000 miles had some glittery stuff in it, so I'm glad I changed the "lifetime" fluid, although it didn't look all that bad and could have gone longer. You can do the automatic yourself too. Check the level like someone described in above posts.

Eiron · Feb 18, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by T-Keith:
... You must check it with the car running and at operating temperature.

Exactly my point. You're not checking it, you're filling it. There was no way to "check" the level on the Bug either. You filled to the level of the side-mounted plug, & you were at the correct level. No "checking" required.

My guess is, if there's no user dipstick, there's no checking necessary (in the conventional sense).

eljefino · Feb 18, 2004

yeah, but what about when the car gets old and develops a slow leak? Who would ever know? I guess I'll skip buying that new Cavalier...

labman · Feb 18, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by eljefino:
yeah, but what about when the car gets old and develops a slow leak? Who would ever know? I guess I'll skip buying that new Cavalier...

What are you going to buy instead, a Neon? I looked at them, same dollar, may have had a dipstick for the transmission, no tack, no antilock brakes, and a smaller gas tank.

Cousincletus seems to have a handle on the 5 speed.

GM's answer on a leak would be to fix it.

SteveD2 · Feb 18, 2004

Won't be long until there's no oil dipstick.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I seem to remember a BMW or Mercedes or something that doesn't have an oil dipstick...

Titanium_Alloy · Feb 18, 2004

I encountered the same problem with my 02 Grand AM.

Here are 2 links which explain how to change ATF. If you want to take it to mechanic (and you probably should, as I did) I recommend printing the instructions and give it to them. Many are just not familiar with correct checking and filling procedure.

http://www.quality-trans.com/faq/faq8.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~cmcguffey/amsoil/lubebsk6.htm

Regards,

nthach · Feb 18, 2004

ZF has been doing this for years, and Toyota just started.

Lubricious · Feb 18, 2004

This link is for the DIY people:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1064342

Also, this tells all about what often happens(or doesn't happen, that should happen) when you take your car in to a repair shop or the stealership.
While this is specific to VW and certain BMW and Benz ATF trannys, it's certainly worth the read about how "Lifetime ATF" is hurting the consumers.
Of special interest is the high cost of the stock semi-synthectic Pentosin Fluid vs. some full synthetics that are compatible replacement oils.

T-Keith · Feb 18, 2004

Thanks for the links guys, now I know where to get started. I've never brought my car to a mechanic before, I don't think I'll start now.

-T

Ray H · Feb 19, 2004

I believe when you refill these dipstickless GM ATs, you're supposed to leave 'em a bit underfilled. Then drive the car far enough to thoroughly warm the transmission fluid (the fluid volume expands with heat) and recheck the level through the filler hole. If (as expected) it's still low, THEN top off until the fluid level is even with the bottom of the filler hole. If, on the other hand, fluid runs out when the filler plug is removed after warmup, just let it dribble into a container until the fluid levels with the bottom of the filler hole - then it's at the proper level. Routine checks thereafter are also done with the fluid at operating temperature, and again, topping off is only necessary if the fluid level has dropped below the bottom edge of the filler hole. None of this is rocket science. It's just an unnecessary PITA to deal with four jackstands that GM puts its do-it-yourself owners through. At least good ol' Dexron III is cheap, plentiful, and available in just about any oil company brand you can think of.

JTK · Feb 20, 2004

Isuzu took away the ATF dipstick on all 1996+ with the GM 4L30E (rodeo,trooper,axiom). It is a major pita. The 4L30E has two pan drain plugs. One stamped/recessed up high to check level & fill, the lower plug is for draining. It's nice & messy pumping ATF up in thru the fill hole

. Per the manual, check ATF on a warm truck, at idle & in neutral. I've found it to work fine in park as well

. ATF is just supposed to dribble out of fill hole. I guess eliminating the ATF dipstick is an easy way to save a few bucks per truck & boost dealership service profits

.
Joel

[ February 21, 2004, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: JTK ]

T-Keith · Feb 22, 2004

I think it's more of the idiot-proofing, they've been doing for years. They don't want people checking their tranny with the engine off and going "my fluid is overfilled!"

People couldn't figure out a gauge, so they came up with the idiot light, now they can't figure that out so they just have a box that displays the problem, and if it's serious the car just shuts down. GM doesn't even use an oil light anymore.

I wish car designers would get a clue, haven't they heard the saying: They'll always build a better idiot.

-T

No dipstick

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