No API starburst on 10w-40 oil bottle

I noticed that no starburst donut was on the Motorcraft 10w-40 bottle I purchased today at Advance Auto. I assume that the zinc and phos. levels are higher that API limits? The oil is SL rated but is not energy conserving rated. Is this a oil without friction modifiers? Since maybe the zinc and ph. are higher would this be a added benefit asuming no high oil consumption? [I dont know]
 
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5,358
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Gone
like a rock, I think the only reason the Motorcraft 10W40 doesn't have the starburst is because it doesn't meet the fuel economy portion of the testing. I am not sure I have EVER seen a 40wt that has the starburst. If anyone has, I would be interested in knowing which oil it is. [ August 10, 2003, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
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848
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Ohio
The oil industry has devised a starburst symbol to certify that a particular motor oil meets the latest industry requirements for protection against deposits, wear, oxidation, and corrosion. The starburst on the label means the oil meets API (American Petroleum Institute)requirements - the latest, most advanced formulation. The CD designation on most oils refers to diesel performance. The starburst also indicates that the oil passes ILSAC/GF-1 stands developed by the international Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee, a U.S.-Japanese group. And it means the oil meets Energy Conserving requirements - it improves fuel economy by reducing engine friction. Note that oils without the starburst symbol may not perform as well as those with the symbol. [ August 10, 2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: badnews ]
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,012
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Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Note that oils without the starburst symbol may not perform as well as those with the symbol.
And many others without the starburst (such as Amsoil or Redline) will outperform those with it.
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,012
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by userfriendly: In which areas Patman? Are all of these governing bodies simply redundant?
Like any governing bodies, they aren't perfect, and oil companies like Redline and Amsoil simply don't feel the need to apply for their approval, especially since it means they'd have to change their formula (taking out more phosphorus for example) But rest assured, there is more technology in Redline and Amsoil than your average 88 cent API certified oil. Better base stock, better detergents, better TBN retention, better antiwear additives, lower volatility, better flow in extreme cold, better protection in extreme heat, higher HTHS, the list goes on...
 
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3,380
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How about in the areas of ring, piston, and cc deposits, along with cat-con performance over the life of the vehicle? Base oil quality? Who is in control of that?
 
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848
Location
Ohio
API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters.Amsoil Amsoil actually makes some very good products. The negative image of Amsoil is due to their distribution method (MLM) and their marketing approach. If Amsoil products were competitively priced with Mobil 1 and other synthetics, and if I could buy them in a store, I would not hesitate to use their XL-7500 synthetic as opposed to Mobil 1. What upsets me about Amsoil is that they didn't disclose until recently (and then it was by accident) the real reason that their oils (except for XL-7500) are not API certified. In the past they came up with all sorts of bizarre excuses about the reason for their lack of API certification and this greatly contributed to the distrust that people have of the company. [ August 10, 2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: badnews ]
 
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34,394
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Isn't this more speculation then fact when talking about the amount that causes problems for CAT converters? If so, Vettes have 4 CATS so I'd be cautious in using a non-api cert. oil in it.
 
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34,394
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NJ
quote:
Keep in mind though, if the engine doesn't burn oil, how will the cats be contaminated with anything? They won't
Good point, I never thought about that. [Cheers!]
 
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903
Location
CA
Not true, My 200k mile civic has always used oil with over 1000ppm Zn and P. It still passes smog tests here in CA quite easily. Do you get your information from the Sierra Club?
quote:
Originally posted by badnews: ............ Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. .....................
 
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903
Location
CA
quote:
Originally posted by badnews: I got it from the API, where else ??? Do what makes you feel good, but the facts are facts.
Of course the API is going to recommend you only buy oil certified by the API. It's a shake down. The 'facts' in this case are just opinions based on worst case scenarios.
 
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Location
Ohio
Oh, that is what the snake oil salesman would love to have most belive. As for me I belive in the API, not to mention all the vehicle manufacturers also, look in any owners manual and they say to use a API rated oil. [ August 10, 2003, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: badnews ]
 
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Pennzoil's 10W-40 doesn't have the starburst either. If I remember correctly, none of the 10W-40 brands do (same with 20W-50 if I'm not mistaken). I've only noticed the starburst on 10W-30 and thinner. This leads me to believe that the starburst is based on oils that pass fuel economy ratings.
 
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903
Location
CA
Posted by badnews "Oh, that is what the snake oil salesman would love to have most belive. As for me I belive in the API, not to mention all the vehicle manufacturers also, look in any owners manual and they say to use a API rated oil." I'm comfortable using an oil that exceeds all API specifications even though they havn't paid for the "donut". Why should you settle for "API certified" oil when you can have better? [ August 10, 2003, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: satterfi ]
 

CJH

Messages
489
Location
Pennsylvania
quote:
Originally posted by badnews: I got it from the API, where else ??? Do what makes you feel good, but the facts are facts.
I don't know much about the API certification, but I get suspicious becuase their advice seems a little self serving. Does anyone know why API does not certify any 40 weight oils? Should I give a rat's rump what the API recommends?
 

CJH

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489
Location
Pennsylvania
So you are stating that no 40 or 50 weight oils are suitable for use in cars with catalytic converters? That is about every car on the road these days, since they have been required since 1974. Seems a little hard to believe. No hard to believe the API recommends it...but hard to believe it is going to damage your car. Oil recommendations are being made for a lot of the wrong reasons these days. Maybe this is another one. Has anyone had a catalytic converter go bad on a car newer than 1990 that was not related to some other malfunction on the car? Just curious.
quote:
Originally posted by badnews: API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters.Amsoil Amsoil actually makes some very good products. The negative image of Amsoil is due to their distribution method (MLM) and their marketing approach. If Amsoil products were competitively priced with Mobil 1 and other synthetics, and if I could buy them in a store, I would not hesitate to use their XL-7500 synthetic as opposed to Mobil 1. What upsets me about Amsoil is that they didn't disclose until recently (and then it was by accident) the real reason that their oils (except for XL-7500) are not API certified. In the past they came up with all sorts of bizarre excuses about the reason for their lack of API certification and this greatly contributed to the distrust that people have of the company.
 
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5,785
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Dixie
Badnews, The reason for the arbitrary 1000 ppm limit on phosphorus is that the 5w-20/5w-30 petroleum oils that have been the industry standard tend to evaporate easily at high temps. If you look at the Noack volatilities of Amsoil and Redline, you'll see they are approx 40%-60% lower than for the same SAE grade of petroleum oil. As a result, much less phosphorus ends up in the cat with a top tier synthetic, even if they are using P levels that are marginally higher than API limits. As just one example, I've run the same batch of Amsoil in my toyota for 15,000 miles and total oil consumption was less than a quart. You'd be hard pressed to do that with a petroleum based 5w-30 or 10w-30. Amsoil is well aware of the phosphorus issue, however they have chosen to address it by reducing the volatility of the specific type of ZDDP compounds they use. This allows them to use optimum ZDDP levels for extended drains. ZDDP is also very effective at preventing oil oxidation and thickening over long drain intervals, so it's a multifunctional additive. If you have any other technical questions about oil formulation chemistry, please drop me a line. TooSlick Dixie Synthetics
 
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