Nissan VQ35HR & ester oil. I have some questions for your expertise

[Bmsluite]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
By no means an expert on oil

All replies with be read, considered, and appreciated.

My go to oil: Rotella T6 5w-40

I have a Nissan 350Z with the VQ35HR engine. My cousin is a mater mechanic at Nissan and was talking to him the other day about oil. According to him my car is supposed to use their Nissan ester oil because of some fancy logic I'm not 100% sold on.

I tried finding an ester oil but all I could really find were race oils and I have read they aren't great for regular street driving. My car is 90% street use and 10% track use.

What are the differences between these ester "race oils" and my old school Rotella T6?

On top of that is there a better oil than the Rotella T6? Maybe a Motul X-cess oil?

Thank you for your time

 

[simple_gifts]

To which race oils do you refer? Redline makes a line of PAO/Ester oils; Their race oils do not have an additive package for extended use.

Red Line Synthetic Oil. Racing Motor Oil

Red Line has a reputation with racers and enthusiasts alike for creating products that perform and protect better than any on the market. No compromises.

www.redlineoil.com

Racing oils provide more wear protection than motor oils for passenger vehicles, however, these products contain fewer detergents and are not suitable for street use

Those are their red label oils; their blue label oils are also PAO/Ester oils and are suitable for use in passenger car applications.

Red Line Synthetic Oil. High-Performance

High-Performance Motor Oil

www.redlineoil.com

I used them for many years as I got qts for $4.99; at this point they are not a good value for your application IMHO. No way your engine "should use" ester oil; probably a Nissan upsell

 

[Greasymechtech]

Any 5w40 will serve you well. Don't sweat the 2% ester marketing from Nissan.

 

[Bmsluite]

To which race oils do you refer? Redline makes a line of PAO/Ester oils; Their race oils do not have an additive package for extended use.

Red Line Synthetic Oil. Racing Motor Oil

Red Line has a reputation with racers and enthusiasts alike for creating products that perform and protect better than any on the market. No compromises.

www.redlineoil.com

Those are their red label oils; their blue label oils are also PAO/Ester oils and are suitable for use in passenger car applications.

Red Line Synthetic Oil. High-Performance

High-Performance Motor Oil

www.redlineoil.com

I used them for many years as I got qts for $4.99; at this point they are not a good value for your application IMHO. No way your engine "should use" ester oil; probably a Nissan upsell

On the nissan marketing hype I agree. I did not see that they had a separate blue label type. But at $60 an oil change that's quite pricey. Have you ever tried the motul stuff? I read some UOAs and they also did not seem to perform well enough for the cost.

I see the amsoil is amazing on UOAs but what makes it so much better than all the other oils and is the crazy price justifiable? I also could not see myself running a 25k mile oil interval like they claim.

 

[Hall]

My cousin is a mater mechanic at Nissan and was talking to him the other day about oil.

Ask him why they don't put that in the vehicles that come to the dealership for oil changes...

No way your engine "should use" ester oil; probably a Nissan upsell

I won't get into what they "should use" but I've seen where Nissan actually recommends ester-based oil. I could have sworn it's in my own owner's manual (I have the same engine as the OP) or FSM but am not seeing it now. I do know the difference between recommended and required too. All the Nissan even recommends is API SM and 5W-30 (in the US). They don't require anything specific.

 

[Gokhan]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
By no means an expert on oil

All replies with be read, considered, and appreciated.

My go to oil: Rotella T6 5w-40

I have a Nissan 350Z with the VQ35HR engine. My cousin is a mater mechanic at Nissan and was talking to him the other day about oil. According to him my car is supposed to use their Nissan ester oil because of some fancy logic I'm not 100% sold on.

I tried finding an ester oil but all I could really find were race oils and I have read they aren't great for regular street driving. My car is 90% street use and 10% track use.

What are the differences between these ester "race oils" and my old school Rotella T6?

On top of that is there a better oil than the Rotella T6? Maybe a Motul X-cess oil?

Thank you for your time

Nissan "ester oil" is not really an ester oil. It does contain a small amount of polyol ester (POE) in the base oil but no more than about 5%. TGMO 0W-20 also contains POE. If you want a POE-containing oil, Red Line High-Performance has the highest amount. Motul ester oils and all Mobil 1 FS and ESP varieties (Euro varieties) also contain POE, along with Amsoil Signature Series.

Rotella is probably fine. You don't really need POE. You don't need an imported oil such as Motul, as there is nothing special about Motul. For track use, you can fill up with a racing oil.

You don't say where you live but if you don't live in a cold climate, Mobil 1 15W-50 would be an upgrade over the Rotella in terms of the base-oil viscosity, HTHS viscosity, ZDDP and moly content, and base-oil quality.

Racing Oil - Motorsports | Mobil™

Mobil 1 Racing™ oils help provide peak performance under grueling race conditions.

www.mobil.com

 

[john_pifer]

Are you tracking the car?

Hard backroad runs?

 

[DwightFrye]

I bought a Nissan 370Z new in 2009. The factory recommended the ester oil on that model too. It was fairly expensive and after doing some reading, decided to use Redline 5W-30 instead.I ran it almost exclusively for 10 years.
The VQ engines are good ones but run hot and are hard on oil. I only went 5000 miles between changes and used either a Mobil 1 # 110 filter (slightly oversized) or the equivalent Fram Ultra, and changed the filters every other oil change.
My Blackstone oil analysis reports were excellent,
I usually ordered the oil & filters online and did my own changes. The cost was around $80 -$85 if I recall. I don't mind spending a little extra to take good care of my vehicles.

 

[Bmsluite]

I bought a Nissan 370Z new in 2009. The factory recommended the ester oil on that model too. It was fairly expensive and after doing some reading, decided to use Redline 5W-30 instead.I ran it almost exclusively for 10 years.
The VQ engines are good ones but run hot and are hard on oil. I only went 5000 miles between changes and used either a Mobil 1 # 110 filter (slightly oversized) or the equivalent Fram Ultra, and changed the filters every other oil change.
My Blackstone oil analysis reports were excellent,
I usually ordered the oil & filters online and did my own changes. The cost was around $80 -$85 if I recall. I don't mind spending a little extra to take good care of my vehicles.

So I ended up running the first track event with the amsoil but took some oil pan temps and wowza. 270F. Pretty hot. I developed two oil cooling systems since the first didn't work out. Now I have a horizontally mounted dual pass oil cooler and running mobil 1 0w-40. I stay well under 250F oil temp on a 100F day. I have figured the mobil 40w oil at 230F to be about the same viscosity as a normal 5w-30 at normal operating temps.

 

[nicholas]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
By no means an expert on oil

All replies with be read, considered, and appreciated.

My go to oil: Rotella T6 5w-40

I have a Nissan 350Z with the VQ35HR engine. My cousin is a mater mechanic at Nissan and was talking to him the other day about oil. According to him my car is supposed to use their Nissan ester oil because of some fancy logic I'm not 100% sold on.

I tried finding an ester oil but all I could really find were race oils and I have read they aren't great for regular street driving. My car is 90% street use and 10% track use.

What are the differences between these ester "race oils" and my old school Rotella T6?

On top of that is there a better oil than the Rotella T6? Maybe a Motul X-cess oil?

Thank you for your time

Just dump in a bottle of lubegard bio engine protectant into any 5w-40 syn.
Lubegard is Ester based. It can handle the heat on the vq engine.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

So I ended up running the first track event with the amsoil but took some oil pan temps and wowza. 270F. Pretty hot. I developed two oil cooling systems since the first didn't work out. Now I have a horizontally mounted dual pass oil cooler and running mobil 1 0w-40. I stay well under 250F oil temp on a 100F day. I have figured the mobil 40w oil at 230F to be about the same viscosity as a normal 5w-30 at normal operating temps.

Like everyone said - VQ doesn't need ester oil. A small amount is just beneficial for track use or hard driving. I'd personally be inclined to stick with Mobil1 0W40 and do a UOA after a normal Oil Change Interval. If Used Oil Analysis shows alarming results, then act from there by switching to Redline 0W40, or simply adding Lubegard Bio Tech to Mobil1 0W40, as mentioned above. Just try to stay with a xW40 oil, as VQ engines absolutely shred oil. If you see that your engine shears M1 0W40 too quick, then Castrol Edge 0W40 is another great budget option, especially combined with Lubegard Bio Tech, and seems to resist oil shear a little better than M1, based on few UOAs I saw.

P.S. Rotella T6 is great oil, but M1 0W40 or Castrol Edge 0W40 are just more budget friendly when you calculate the price per quart. And both are tested to meet demands of Porsche A40 certification.

Here is Porsche A40 testing procedure:
This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through:
- 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving,
- 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving,
- 40 cold starts,
- 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack,
- 3.5 hours of “running-in” program
Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter
will be taken into account to grant the approval or not:
- torque curve (internal friction),
- oxidation of the oil,
- Piston cleanliness and ring sticking,
- Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm.
- Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible.
- Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.

 

[bbhero]

Great post Vlad. ^^^^^^^^^

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Thanks @bbhero.

One more thing for comparison. Just a rough idea of how the numbers stack up. Take everything with a grain of salt.
Most daily driven cars have an average speed (over the course of an OCI) of about ~35mph. That would make the 203hr test an equivalent to 7,105 miles of driving.
Assuming the average speeds are higher, let's say 50mph, and the 203hrs are now equivalent to 10,150 miles of driving.

 

[Bmsluite]

Like everyone said - VQ doesn't need ester oil. A small amount is just beneficial for track use or hard driving. I'd personally be inclined to stick with Mobil1 0W40 and do a UOA after a normal Oil Change Interval. If Used Oil Analysis shows alarming results, then act from there by switching to Redline 0W40, or simply adding Lubegard Bio Tech to Mobil1 0W40, as mentioned above. Just try to stay with a xW40 oil, as VQ engines absolutely shred oil. If you see that your engine shears M1 0W40 too quick, then Castrol Edge 0W40 is another great budget option, especially combined with Lubegard Bio Tech, and seems to resist oil shear a little better than M1, based on few UOAs I saw.

P.S. Rotella T6 is great oil, but M1 0W40 or Castrol Edge 0W40 are just more budget friendly when you calculate the price per quart. And both are tested to meet demands of Porsche A40 certification.

Here is Porsche A40 testing procedure:
This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through:
- 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving,
- 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving,
- 40 cold starts,
- 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack,
- 3.5 hours of “running-in” program
Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter
will be taken into account to grant the approval or not:
- torque curve (internal friction),
- oxidation of the oil,
- Piston cleanliness and ring sticking,
- Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm.
- Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible.
- Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.

I actually ran rotella t6 when I first got the car but all the hubbub about it killing cats made me switch over. What is this Lubeguard Bio Tech you speak of? What does it do and why should I be using it in this engine? Forgive my ignorance.

Also, I did see that the castrol is a couple notches higher in viscosity than the M1 which is why I didn't go with it. That thicker oil ends up heating faster on track. A lot of guys seem to run a 5w-30 and say it helps keep Temps down rather than going with a 40. I do not subscribe to this logic and figure the monils 12.3 viscosity was a good fit.

 

[wemay]

Here's some of their marketing....

Bio/Tech Engine Oil Protectant - Lubegard

www.lubegard.com

Previous discussion on this board...

Adding Lubegard Bio/Tech to motor oil - what happens, does it get diluted?

I think it’s more like 🚤🎣 Speedboat fishing?

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Graham Piccinini]

I actually ran rotella t6 when I first got the car but all the hubbub about it killing cats made me switch over. What is this Lubeguard Bio Tech you speak of? What does it do and why should I be using it in this engine? Forgive my ignorance.

Below is a thread about that Lubegard additive. While many additives are snake oils, Lubegard is one of the few that make additives that work and benefit the application they are specified for. Whether it's an oil additive, or ATF additive, etc.

Lubegard Heavy Duty Engine Protectant VOA

OK, so I know this is not a "PCMO/HDEO" VOA but there's not a spot for additives. There is a VERY old VOA of Lubegard Bio/Tech on the board, and there have been comments here that the Heavy Duty may or may not be the same, and may or may not have esters etc. I know VOA won't show esters but...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Bmsluite]

Below is a thread about that Lubegard additive. While many additives are snake oils, Lubegard is one of the few that make additives that work and benefit the application they are specified for. Whether it's an oil additive, or ATF additive, etc.

Lubegard Heavy Duty Engine Protectant VOA

OK, so I know this is not a "PCMO/HDEO" VOA but there's not a spot for additives. There is a VERY old VOA of Lubegard Bio/Tech on the board, and there have been comments here that the Heavy Duty may or may not be the same, and may or may not have esters etc. I know VOA won't show esters but...

bobistheoilguy.com

You seem to be much more knowledgeable on oils than I so maybe you can break down a lingering question I have had concerning viscosity index.

As you know I track this vehicle and run quite high temperatures even when running an oil cooler. I block that cooler off with a plate but still it cools the oil some and I sometime only get the car to 170F on the highway on cool days.

Since I have this "too cool" and "too hot" issue all in one package would a higher or lower viscosity index be desirable? The car does not get driven below freezing. I have below two examples, one is mobil 1 euro 0w-40 and the other is castrol 5w-30 a3/b4. Both oils I like and both seem nearly identical on paper. The only difference is the castrol had a VI of 165 and the mobil a VI of 185. Is the castrol then going to thin out much greater at the higher track Temps than the mobil due to the lower VI? And if so, would that offset the lower amount of shear it would experience due to its lower VI as I have read that a lower VI is desirable in tracked vehicles since the friction modifiers break down and become volatile at those higher Temps.

Which would be better for my application do you think? I'll attach the specs of the oils although I am sure there is more to it. I could not find the NOACK and am not 100% I understand that either. I just know lower is better. I just want to learn. Thanks!

 

[Graham Piccinini]

You seem to be much more knowledgeable on oils than I so maybe you can break down a lingering question I have had concerning viscosity index.

As you know I track this vehicle and run quite high temperatures even when running an oil cooler. I block that cooler off with a plate but still it cools the oil some and I sometime only get the car to 170F on the highway on cool days.

Since I have this "too cool" and "too hot" issue all in one package would a higher or lower viscosity index be desirable? The car does not get driven below freezing. I have below two examples, one is mobil 1 euro 0w-40 and the other is castrol 5w-30 a3/b4. Both oils I like and both seem nearly identical on paper. The only difference is the castrol had a VI of 165 and the mobil a VI of 185. Is the castrol then going to thin out much greater at the higher track Temps than the mobil due to the lower VI? And if so, would that offset the lower amount of shear it would experience due to its lower VI as I have read that a lower VI is desirable in tracked vehicles since the friction modifiers break down and become volatile at those higher Temps.

Which would be better for my application do you think? I'll attach the specs of the oils although I am sure there is more to it. I could not find the NOACK and am not 100% I understand that either. I just know lower is better. I just want to learn. Thanks!

I'm still learning myself, and will still be learning 20 years from now, assuming I'm still alive and this forum still exists.
In general - yes, lower VI is better. But it is only one part of the puzzle, and this is where most of us make a mistake in the beginning of our oil journey. We start to hunt for oil with lowest VI, or lowest NOACK, or highest Moly, highest Zinc, etc. But, in my humble opinion, it is a much better choice to look at the oil as a complete package, instead of hair splitting the difference in one of the ingredients, or oil's abilities to perform a certain task that we think is important.
Here is what I can tell you though. Many professional race teams have been reported to use Mobil 1 0W40 (same stuff we all get at Wal-Mart) in their million dollar supercars. I'll include a link to one of such teams below, but there are more if you search around. But it begs a question: why don't they use a dedicated Mobil Racing oil? Or develop their own oil? Well, I'll let you look into that matter and make decisions for yourself. I made mine.

Porsche's own factory race team apparently uses M1 0w-40 FS

I was fortunate enough to attend Porsche Rennsport Reunion at Laguna Seca Raceway back in 2018. It's a huge gathering where every conceivable model of Porsche is brought to a track and displayed and raced. One of my favorite parts of the event is that nothing is roped off and people can go right...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Bmsluite]

I'm still learning myself, and will still be learning 20 years from now, assuming I'm still alive and this forum still exists.
In general - yes, lower VI is better. But it is only one part of the puzzle, and this is where most of us make a mistake in the beginning of our oil journey. We start to hunt for oil with lowest VI, or lowest NOACK, or highest Moly, highest Zinc, etc. But, in my humble opinion, it is a much better choice to look at the oil as a complete package, instead of hair splitting the difference in one of the ingredients, or oil's abilities to perform a certain task that we think is important.
Here is what I can tell you though. Many professional race teams have been reported to use Mobil 1 0W40 (same stuff we all get at Wal-Mart) in their million dollar supercars. I'll include a link to one of such teams below, but there are more if you search around. But it begs a question: why don't they use a dedicated Mobil Racing oil? Or develop their own oil? Well, I'll let you look into that matter and make decisions for yourself. I made mine.

Porsche's own factory race team apparently uses M1 0w-40 FS

I was fortunate enough to attend Porsche Rennsport Reunion at Laguna Seca Raceway back in 2018. It's a huge gathering where every conceivable model of Porsche is brought to a track and displayed and raced. One of my favorite parts of the event is that nothing is roped off and people can go right...

bobistheoilguy.com

Ahhh yes, the old oil sponsor track fill. I hope you know that's a ruse when they do that. They have to fill the oil at the track with the sponsors oil. It's part of the contract to maintain sponsorship. What you don't know is that the bottle definitely is not filled with off the shelf oil and its probably not even mobil 1. You can even see this done at track days with sponsored cars and if you go talk to them you'll find out they have bunches of prefilled oil sponsor bottles with their own choice of oil in it. Race cars are expensive and if you have to swap oil into sponsors bottle to afford your season......you are 100% going to do that.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Ahhh yes, the old oil sponsor track fill. I hope you know that's a ruse when they do that. They have to fill the oil at the track with the sponsors oil. It's part of the contract to maintain sponsorship. What you don't know is that the bottle definitely is not filled with off the shelf oil and its probably not even mobil 1. You can even see this done at track days with sponsored cars and if you go talk to them you'll find out they have bunches of prefilled oil sponsor bottles with their own choice of oil in it. Race cars are expensive and if you have to swap oil into sponsors bottle to afford your season......you are 100% going to do that.

No doubt, but there are also other threads here that include UOAs that show how well that oil does in various engines with different demands and duty cycles. (The link I posted is also just 1 piece of the puzzle.) There are also many threads of first-hand in shop discussions with engineers and mechanics of private race teams (who rebuild engines often and measure wear, note overall condition) and all point to the same conclusion: this oil works in racing application as well as it does in grocery getter application. Most of the threads I'm referring to are few years old, so I'm not going digging for them now. But all is available to anyone with a simple search bar up top. I'm still sticking to my earlier statement: don't hunt a single ingredient or ability to do 1 certain task better than the rest. Look at the oil's overall performance. Thousands of UOAs posted on this forum alone. Plus many more available on other forums too. Try the oil, do a UOA, see how your engine responds. Simple as that.
As far as your oil getting too cool - try Castrol Edge 0W40. Temp should get up a bit in normal driving, and on track the higher oil temps will be fine as Castrol Edge 0W40 won't shear from those temps like M1 0W40 may.

P.S. Interestingly enough, despite the better shear stability Castrol Edge 0W40 still has a lower flash point than Mobil1 FS 0W40. 209C/408F VS. 226C/439F respectively. But again, it's just another piece to the puzzle.