Nissan, Ghosn Fined $16 Million...

[PimTac]

This story might be fake news but if it is true it adds to the intrigue of this entire soap opera.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/nissan-boss-carlos-ghosn-lebanon-japan-a4323911.html

 

[PimTac]

I guess the musical instrument box story is true. I've seen a few sources go with it now.

So apparently he got a hold of a French passport and then with the planning of his wife and other associates had a birthday party where a band performed. When the band packed everything up they included him. They flew out of Japan on a private jet to Turkey and then he flew on to Beirut.

It's like Mission Impossible in real life. (The old version, not the Tom Cruise junk)

 

[Sayjac]

The AP's Yuri Kageyama been following the Ghosn Japan saga since the beginning. One of his latest articles linked.

By jumping bail, fugitive Ghosn burns bridges to Japan

Turkey has now detained 7 in connection with Ghosn escape which came via Istanbul. Also Japan raided Ghosn Tokyo home. Seems a little late for that.

Turkey detains 7 in probe into Ghosn.....

Who knows, there may be a movie based on the Ghosn saga.

 

[SeaJay]

Going to court in Japan is a losing proposition, the defendant loses about 99.99% of the time according to statistics.

 

[jstert]

Originally Posted by SeaJay
Going to court in Japan is a losing proposition, the defendant loses about 99.99% of the time according to statistics.


indeed very true seajay. there are many good things that come from japan but jurisprudence isn't one of them. i know nothing of ghosn's guilt or innocence but i do understand what he has endured pre trial, having worked on legal matters there for 11 years. japanese law approaches the medieval in its application.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by jstert
Originally Posted by SeaJay
Going to court in Japan is a losing proposition, the defendant loses about 99.99% of the time according to statistics.


indeed very true seajay. there are many good things that come from japan but jurisprudence isn't one of them. i know nothing of ghosn's guilt or innocence but i do understand what he has endured pre trial, having worked on legal matters there for 11 years. japanese law approaches the medieval in its application.

While there is definiately a lot to say about Japanese judicial system, wasn't he aware of the system when he agreed to take the role of CEO? This to me looks like it is going to venture into nationalistic back and forth very fast.
To add, Ghosn is probably going to spent rest of his life in Lebanon and some other countries that have "lax" (for lack of better word) relationship with Interpol.

 

[PimTac]

I think Ghosn brought his Lebanon attitude with him to Japan. Maybe he was used to back door deals and commissions while there or in France but Japan is another matter entirely. If he didn't know their system them he wasn't much of a businessman.

The complaints of Japan about their legal system are from those who expect country club prisons for their white collar crimes. Everyone is treated the same there.

I had hoped that all this would have spurred a breakup with Renault. Sadly that didn't happen. If Nissan has gone back to their Datsun roots and with Mitsubishi as a partner and financial source they might have been able to remake themselves.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by PimTac
I think Ghosn brought his Lebanon attitude with him to Japan. Maybe he was used to back door deals and commissions while there or in France but Japan is another matter entirely. If he didn't know their system them he wasn't much of a businessman.

The complaints of Japan about their legal system are from those who expect country club prisons for their white collar crimes. Everyone is treated the same there.

I had hoped that all this would have spurred a breakup with Renault. Sadly that didn't happen. If Nissan has gone back to their Datsun roots and with Mitsubishi as a partner and financial source they might have been able to remake themselves.



I agree about Ghosn. And while the Japanese justice system is far from perfect many times the perps are truly guilty as charged, as the prosecutors there do their homework well. I think Ghosn is very guilty and indeed as operating in a reckless and wanton manner and got caught.

There is still some time for Nissan and Mitsu to break that alliance...never too late at this point.

 

[Wolf359]

It's a good read on how he "escaped". Hopefully the pilots detained really had nothing to do with it. Looks like he hired a "band" and those guys were in on it so hopefully they don't also get caught up in the escape. Anyone who is out on bail with his kind of money can always figure out a way to get out of the country if they want.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
It's a good read on how he "escaped". Hopefully the pilots detained really had nothing to do with it. Looks like he hired a "band" and those guys were in on it so hopefully they don't also get caught up in the escape. Anyone who is out on bail with his kind of money can always figure out a way to get out of the country if they want.


What would amuse me was if Ghosn was kidnapped by agents and taken back to Japan...oh I'd love to see that. Karma sucks.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by PimTac
I think Ghosn brought his Lebanon attitude with him to Japan. Maybe he was used to back door deals and commissions while there or in France but Japan is another matter entirely. If he didn't know their system them he wasn't much of a businessman.

The complaints of Japan about their legal system are from those who expect country club prisons for their white collar crimes. Everyone is treated the same there.

I had hoped that all this would have spurred a breakup with Renault. Sadly that didn't happen. If Nissan has gone back to their Datsun roots and with Mitsubishi as a partner and financial source they might have been able to remake themselves.

Exactly that. This will now venture into victimhood behavior, where he will become folk hero in Lebanon and eventually Prime Minister or something (this is wild guess).
As for Renault, if there was no Renault Nissan would be dead by now. There is no going back to the "roots." Roots are long dead.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PimTac
I think Ghosn brought his Lebanon attitude with him to Japan. Maybe he was used to back door deals and commissions while there or in France but Japan is another matter entirely. If he didn't know their system them he wasn't much of a businessman.

The complaints of Japan about their legal system are from those who expect country club prisons for their white collar crimes. Everyone is treated the same there.

I had hoped that all this would have spurred a breakup with Renault. Sadly that didn't happen. If Nissan has gone back to their Datsun roots and with Mitsubishi as a partner and financial source they might have been able to remake themselves.

Exactly that. This will now venture into victimhood behavior, where he will become folk hero in Lebanon and eventually Prime Minister or something (this is wild guess).
As for Renault, if there was no Renault Nissan would be dead by now. There is no going back to the "roots." Roots are long dead.


Except Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has deep pockets and still has a stake in the company...Nissan and Mitsu should bail out now.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by Wolf359
It's a good read on how he "escaped". Hopefully the pilots detained really had nothing to do with it. Looks like he hired a "band" and those guys were in on it so hopefully they don't also get caught up in the escape. Anyone who is out on bail with his kind of money can always figure out a way to get out of the country if they want.


What would amuse me was if Ghosn was kidnapped by agents and taken back to Japan...oh I'd love to see that. Karma sucks.


I haven't read a story this good since the end of the Cold War.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by PimTac
I think Ghosn brought his Lebanon attitude with him to Japan. Maybe he was used to back door deals and commissions while there or in France but Japan is another matter entirely. If he didn't know their system them he wasn't much of a businessman.

The complaints of Japan about their legal system are from those who expect country club prisons for their white collar crimes. Everyone is treated the same there.

I had hoped that all this would have spurred a breakup with Renault. Sadly that didn't happen. If Nissan has gone back to their Datsun roots and with Mitsubishi as a partner and financial source they might have been able to remake themselves.

Exactly that. This will now venture into victimhood behavior, where he will become folk hero in Lebanon and eventually Prime Minister or something (this is wild guess).
As for Renault, if there was no Renault Nissan would be dead by now. There is no going back to the "roots." Roots are long dead.


Except Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has deep pockets and still has a stake in the company...Nissan and Mitsu should bail out now.




Yep. MHI and the conglomerate Mitsubishi is a huge entity. Mitsubishi Motors is a very small part of that.

With the trend towards mobility, the two could make a go of it. Mitsubishi is still a big name in Asia and the emerging markets.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by PimTac


Yep. MHI and the conglomerate Mitsubishi is a huge entity. Mitsubishi Motors is a very small part of that.

With the trend towards mobility, the two could make a go of it. Mitsubishi is still a big name in Asia and the emerging markets.



Fact is that Mitsubishi still makes some very good if not excellent vehicles and almost all of them are very reliable and most come close to the reliability of
Toyota, Honda, and Mazda...I'd buy a Mitsu if I was in the market for a new car in the future, and I'm in the USA. What Mitsu motors needs to do in the USA is build an awareness that the brand is still a powerhouse around the world with plenty to back up their products even in the USA.

While Nissan lost a lot of it's luster over the past two decades there is some sign that there is a turnaround....with recent products at least the reliability might make it back to levels that come close to the big 3 Japanese brands...This would be the perfect time for them to bail out now. I hope they do.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by PimTac


Yep. MHI and the conglomerate Mitsubishi is a huge entity. Mitsubishi Motors is a very small part of that.

With the trend towards mobility, the two could make a go of it. Mitsubishi is still a big name in Asia and the emerging markets.



Fact is that Mitsubishi still makes some very good if not excellent vehicles and almost all of them are very reliable and most come close to the reliability of
Toyota, Honda, and Mazda...I'd buy a Mitsu if I was in the market for a new car in the future, and I'm in the USA. What Mitsu motors needs to do in the USA is build an awareness that the brand is still a powerhouse around the world with plenty to back up their products even in the USA.

While Nissan lost a lot of it's luster over the past two decades there is some sign that there is a turnaround....with recent products at least the reliability might make it back to levels that come close to the big 3 Japanese brands...This would be the perfect time for them to bail out now. I hope they do.




I have owned two Mitsubishi's in the past and they were excellent. Never had any trouble with them. Mitsubishi Motors never recovered from that disastrous loan plan back in 2000. Actually I bought my Montero Sport with that plan but instead of not making payments like many did during the two year zero interest period I took advantage and did make payments. Sadly most did not and then turned their vehicle back in after the two years. Now the American arm of Mitsubishi is a ghost of what it once was.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by PimTac




I have owned two Mitsubishi's in the past and they were excellent. Never had any trouble with them. Mitsubishi Motors never recovered from that disastrous loan plan back in 2000. Actually I bought my Montero Sport with that plan but instead of not making payments like many did during the two year zero interest period I took advantage and did make payments. Sadly most did not and then turned their vehicle back in after the two years. Now the American arm of Mitsubishi is a ghost of what it once was.



It's always hard to believe that the Japanese parent company signed off on that plan back then. I'm still blown away by how irresponsible it was on the part of the company.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
Originally Posted by Wolf359
It's a good read on how he "escaped". Hopefully the pilots detained really had nothing to do with it. Looks like he hired a "band" and those guys were in on it so hopefully they don't also get caught up in the escape. Anyone who is out on bail with his kind of money can always figure out a way to get out of the country if they want.


What would amuse me was if Ghosn was kidnapped by agents and taken back to Japan...oh I'd love to see that. Karma sucks.


I think there are some countries that do this. Come to think of it, the US might have done it. Not sure about Japan though. Just part of the deal of living the life of a wanted man, always looking over your shoulder. But he was probably looking at a long prison sentence if found guilty like he probably would have been.

 

[Sayjac]

As noted earlier, Nissan took a controlling 34% stake in Mitsubishi Motors in 2016 (in wake of Mitsu fuel economy scandal) thus making Mitsu a part of the Alliance. In the Alliance, Renault has a ~43% fully voting stake in Nissan. So Renault still calls the shots in the Alliance. Unless Nissan and by extention Mitsu can find some miraculous funding source I don't foresee any change. One would have thought if anything to happen the Ghosn arrest would have been the time. Nissan/Mitsu together got an equal voting share in the Alliance with Renault now too. So imo Nissan going back to all Japan controlled company an unlikely scenario.

As for Ghosn, I don't imagine he'll be leaving Lebanon any time soon. But with this saga, never know.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Mitsubishi Motors never recovered from that disastrous loan plan back in 2000. Actually I bought my Montero Sport with that plan but instead of not making payments like many did during the two year zero interest period I took advantage and did make payments. Sadly most did not and then turned their vehicle back in after the two years. Now the American arm of Mitsubishi is a ghost of what it once was.
In addition to Mitsubishi's "0-0-0" finance offer (0% down, 0% interest, and $0 monthly payments for 12 months), they were also concurrently offering their "Friends and Family" finance program where someone who had a vehicle financed with them could bring-in/vouch-for a friend or family member and they were automatically approved for financing. The combination was a disaster! They sold a LOT of vehicles to people who had REALLY BAD credit during this program. The bad credit buyers just figured that they had a vehicle to use for 14-15 months free of charge. In 2001 and 2002 there were literally tens of thousands of repo'd Mitsubishis coming through the manufacturer's lanes at the auto auctions on a weekly basis, many of them trashed-out, selling for a fraction of their original price. The used car market was flooded with them and it took several years before Mitsubishi could clear all of the vehicles out.