Newbie here and GM AFM lifters

[mokeman]

Ok, so that was a ruse...

I put the Valvoline SynPower 5w30 + a new PF-48 filter in, and did exactly what Jimbo said, and it didn't do squat, ticking is as loud as it was before I started. Oh well, guess I needed and oil change anyhow.

 

[mokeman]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Well what did the dealer say?

 

[wolfc70]

The ticking is somewhat normal. Coworkers 2010 Avalanche ticked badly at idle. He took it on vacation over the summer. One lifter failed halfway there, causing it to run on 7 cylinders. Dealer replaced all the lifters and they continued on their way. 20 miles from there destination, a head gasket blew dumping coolant into the oil and overheating the engine. GM roadside service towed vehicle to nearest dealer and paid for the hotel. New engine installed and this one is silent, but it burns oil. Can't win them all.

I'm not to impressed with GM lately. I really liked the cruze, and almost bought one instead of my Accord. But the two I test drove has issues. One had a misaligned piece of dash trim and a rattle somewhere in the dash. The second had a MIL come on and flash engine overheating a minute after leaving the dealer for a test drive. I lost interest after that.

And my neighbors Acadia is always at the dealer. He has had two engines replaced under warranty. One had improperly hardened cam lobes and the second had timing chain failure. The first engine was replaced at 12,000 miles and the second one at 52,000 miles. His 2007 Tahoe has been less than stellar also. As a once die hard GM fan, it pains me to say this, but they still have a long way to go.

 

[mokeman]

Oh man, - I didn't need to see this post. Completely failed lifter?

On a side note, I'm assuming (hoping) that if a lifter completely fails, that I'd know about it by either feeling it, or seeing a Check Engine Light.

 

[jimbo64]

Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Coworkers 2010 Avalanche ticked badly at idle. He took it on vacation over the summer. One lifter failed halfway there, causing it to run on 7 cylinders. Dealer replaced all the lifters and they continued on their way. 20 miles from there destination, a head gasket blew dumping coolant into the oil and overheating the engine. GM roadside service towed vehicle to nearest dealer and paid for the hotel. New engine installed and this one is silent, but it burns oil.


Hey everyone...as the OP, I thought I'd check back in.

I've got 8k on the odometer now. The hot tick kept coming back. Only a good revving makes it go away, but it doesn't last more than a day, so I quit doing that...no point in tearing something up. It's got to be low rpm bleed off IMO. I have absolutely no oil usage and no piston slap or tick when cold - it's basically a great engine until it heats up. I didn't run the Synpower for very long...at hot idle it eventually made a bell-like 'tink-tink-tink' sound. It's a dud lifter I guess. I wish it could be changed without pulling the head as wolfc70 posted above.

I'm now trying dino Havoline 10w-40. Idle is (again) quiet, but now has an acceptable tick at 1,500 rpms in park. Oil pressure went from 20 psi hot at idle to about 27. Pressure at 1,700 rpm driving is about 40 psi now vs 37 before.

One thing I've noticed on all the oils in the 'instant mpg' DIC mode, is that when the oil is hot and I'm driving steady at highway speed, is that when V-4 kicks in, the oil pressure goes up about 1-2 psi, and down the same amount when V-8 kicks in. I don't understand this. It's not sometimes, it's every time.

I suppose what upsets me the most is that I love this truck and plan on keeping it for a long time. It's beautiful and gets compliments all the time. If it was a lease, I wouldn't care at all for the worn out engine sound.

I'll post back on the Havoline 10w-40 does. Thanks for everyone's comments.

 

[mokeman]

Originally Posted By: jimbo64
The hot tick kept coming back.

I didn't run the Synpower for very long...at hot idle it eventually made a bell-like 'tink-tink-tink' sound.


Yeah, well, what I'm disappointed at, is that I fell for the $47 SynPower oil change trick.

And just how are you able to detect 1-2 PSI oil pressure changes? - Do you have some sort of high-accuracy digital oil gauge ?

The hot tick problem isn't going to be fixed with oil. If anything, mine is now a tad louder with the 10w30 synPowe than it was with the conventional Penzoil 10w30 that I had in it before. And a "good revving" doesn't do anything to alter the ticking, not for a minute, not for a second, - at least not on my truck.

 

[Bladecutter]

I hate to ask, but have any of you who have this sound actually put a stethoscope onto the engine to locate the source of the noise?

Maybe its just noisy fuel injectors?

But yes, a brand new vehicle that is really noisy would make me unhappy.

I hate to ask, but did it make this noise on the test drive?
If it did, why did you buy it?

And finally, although I know you hate bringing it back to the dealer for service, in this case, why don't you keep bringing it back to the dealer to document the issue, and their non-fixes, so that you can lemon law the truck just so that you can be free of it?

That's what I would ultimately do.

BC.

 

[mokeman]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter

Maybe its just noisy fuel injectors?

Suggest watching the video in post one of this thread, as it's clear that you didn't watch or listen to it ("hate to say it").

 

[jimbo64]

Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
I hate to ask, but have any of you who have this sound actually put a stethoscope onto the engine to locate the source of the noise?

Maybe its just noisy fuel injectors?

But yes, a brand new vehicle that is really noisy would make me unhappy.

I hate to ask, but did it make this noise on the test drive?
If it did, why did you buy it?

And finally, although I know you hate bringing it back to the dealer for service, in this case, why don't you keep bringing it back to the dealer to document the issue, and their non-fixes, so that you can lemon law the truck just so that you can be free of it?

That's what I would ultimately do.

BC.


Bladecutter, I agree totally with everything you said. Thanks for the response.

To answer some of your questions -

No stethoscope, don't have one, but definitely lifters. Or was...(lifters plural), until I did what I did with the Synpower. Then it became just one lifter that annoyed the [censored] out of me - the 'tink' sound when hot. Like a marble being dropped on a small bell repeatedly.

Test drive...No, it made no noise from new until several hundred 90/10 highway/city miles at 70 mph, 1,750 rpms. V8-V4 mode maybe? I dunno.

I know for sure the dealer won't put new lifters in it as I type this..It's waaay too quiet for that now, but I will call them to get this issue logged just in case. And, I wouldn't want them to take the heads off the engine right now anyway. Too much needs removed to do so and the risk in messing something else up is pretty huge, since the tech's work under high pressure to hurry up and get it done and it's difficult to reach the engine bay without killing your stomach and back. I wouldn't want to do it.

So...A little bit of my $$ to avoid that, I have changed oil in 8k miles several times to see what works best for me to avoid a blown head gasket like was posted above. Here's what I've done:

#1 oil change - PP 5w-30 - awful. (I think that's the factory fill) http://www.orangelineoil.com/articles1-80/PennzoilandQuakerStateareGMDEXOSApproved

#2 - Valvoline Synpower 5w-30 - my OP, and shut it up totally until I got the 'tink' sound after a while.

#3 - Castrol dino 5w-30 - no change, but noticeably (dash gauge) lower oil pressure (19-20 idle hot)??

#4 - Going thicker, Havoline dino 10w-40. Much less 'tink', but got cold here a few days ago, and felt sluggish when cold. Only gonna get colder in January. Easy, cold driving was 50+ (gauge) psi.

#5 - Currently, trying European 0w-40 M1 with the same driving as above. Not good AT ALL at first with a lot of lifters ticking cold and hot, but, no more 'tink' and very stable oil pressures to my surprise. Hot 30 psi idle, 40 highway, no more than 45 psi cold. Best oil pressures yet and impressive cold performance. And (for now) quiet again. Even the exhaust note has changed for the better. Maybe the cam phasing? Too much IMO in this AFM engine relies on oil and oil pressure.

Sorry guys for the long post....I really thought I had it fixed in the early going. This is an aggravating situation for a lot of people that spent close to 50k on a truck, like mokeman's post above and the vid link of a guy I posted in post #1.

I read where the new Camaros are having oil pressure lights come on due to bad oil pump relief valves after several k miles. Not good. And, (thankfully not me yet) a lot of the new 5.3's like in my truck burn 1 qt of oil per 1k miles after about 50k miles for no known reason to GM...NORMAL of course. I'm getting off track here on an oil forum...

I did my part in these troubled times...bought American. Sadly, the label on the driver's door says assembled in Mexico. I didn't know that when I bought it. Later, I found the engine was made in USA though.

 

[wolfc70]

Originally Posted By: mokeman
Oh man, - I didn't need to see this post. Completely failed lifter?

On a side note, I'm assuming (hoping) that if a lifter completely fails, that I'd know about it by either feeling it, or seeing a Check Engine Light.


My co-workers Avalanche the lifter just collapsed, not opening the valve. Yes it had a miss and a MIL for a misfire. The failed lifter causes no engine damage. His 5.3 died due to a gasket failure (most likely head gasket, though not 100% sure. The engine was never opened up, GM just installed a new engine) that allowed coolant into the oil. He noticed something was wrong when 500 or so miles later his oil pressure went to 0 psi at idle.

I think since most cylinder deactivation systems use the lifters to shut down cylinders, if you spend lots of time under light load, those lifters might need some time to properly pump back up. The ticking is just a tad too much clearance, nothing to really worry about.

Some GM cars do it too. The Impala with the 3.9l v6 tick too. Relatives company car tick like crazy for a few minutes after getting off the highway.

I have heard more than a few MDS Hemi's that tick.

Yes it sucks having to listen to a ticking engine, especially in a $40k+ vehicle. But consider that for years you had the piston slap era, which sounded tons worse. You have a decent warranty, I would just enjoy the truck. Or in a few years just trade it in on a new Ford!

Off Topic- I just drove a new Ford F150 Ecoboost. Wow, I was very impressed! Time will tell if they hold up, but what a torque pump of a motor, reminded me of a diesel.

 

[mokeman]

Actually, and to the stethoscope comment, I "may" have been to quick to dismiss this idea, and assuming that the hot tick is actually lifter related.

To that point, I did the "pipe to ear" thing yesterday to see if I could isolate the ticking noise. It was fruitless, at least looking for the noise in the engine compartment.

Later on I decided to climb under the truck while t was running. Interestingly enough, it "seems" to me that it is coming from the transmission area, - specifically the front half near the torque converter. Maybe my imagination, but it seems louder just behind the torque converter, - near the transmission front pump area.

But I'll do some more investigation. I seem to be second guessing the whole idea that this is a lifter issue. But with the lifters being deep inside the engine (under the heads), it might be tad difficult to conclude that it is lifter related.

 

[09silverado]

New to the forums, but i joined to discuss this issue also.

2009 5.3L Aluminum block 4spd silverado
46,000 miles and I had about 300mi on it since last oil change prior to the trip
M1 5w-30 PF48 filter

I'm not sure what is going on, but on long trips it burns a lot of oil (300+ miles) 1/2 quart maybe more.

I normally drive 60 miles a day 10mi at 20-30mph and 50mi at 65+, no oil burn, about 1qt every 5,000 mi but sometimes i get the bad lifter noise, especially if it's cold....

long drive circumstance:
CT to PA - hills, traffic, etc took 7hrs
Used engine braking on hills and slow traffic
stopped twice (for the dog)

truck sat for 2 days after trip, started it up and it smoked like 200,000+ mile small block in a boat.

fwiw, i have had the best luck calming lifter collapse/oil drain down by using M1 and the ac delco filter. I would like to try a K&N oil filter but nobody has them in stock for the PF48 equivalent... had good luck with K&N preventing drain down.

 

[jimbo64]

Originally Posted By: mokeman
Actually, and to the stethoscope comment, I "may" have been to quick to dismiss this idea, and assuming that the hot tick is actually lifter related.

To that point, I did the "pipe to ear" thing yesterday to see if I could isolate the ticking noise. It was fruitless, at least looking for the noise in the engine compartment.

Later on I decided to climb under the truck while t was running. Interestingly enough, it "seems" to me that it is coming from the transmission area, - specifically the front half near the torque converter. Maybe my imagination, but it seems louder just behind the torque converter, - near the transmission front pump area.

But I'll do some more investigation. I seem to be second guessing the whole idea that this is a lifter issue. But with the lifters being deep inside the engine (under the heads), it might be tad difficult to conclude that it is lifter related.


Originally Posted By: 09silverado
New to the forums, but i joined to discuss this issue also.

2009 5.3L Aluminum block 4spd silverado
46,000 miles and I had about 300mi on it since last oil change prior to the trip
M1 5w-30 PF48 filter

I'm not sure what is going on, but on long trips it burns a lot of oil (300+ miles) 1/2 quart maybe more.

I normally drive 60 miles a day 10mi at 20-30mph and 50mi at 65+, no oil burn, about 1qt every 5,000 mi but sometimes i get the bad lifter noise, especially if it's cold....

long drive circumstance:
CT to PA - hills, traffic, etc took 7hrs
Used engine braking on hills and slow traffic
stopped twice (for the dog)

truck sat for 2 days after trip, started it up and it smoked like 200,000+ mile small block in a boat.

fwiw, i have had the best luck calming lifter collapse/oil drain down by using M1 and the ac delco filter. I would like to try a K&N oil filter but nobody has them in stock for the PF48 equivalent... had good luck with K&N preventing drain down.


Update...I now have 1k miles on the European M1 0w-40, with a 700 mile interstate trip coming in 2 days - this should prove interesting.

Weather in Ohio has been from 70 down to 20F. I am now very happy with my truck. Oil pressure is very stable cold and hot, still have no noises when cold, and hot I can go thru McD's drive thru without dreading hearing my engine against the brick wall. MPG is exactly the same as the factory fill (probably PP) 5w-30, and the oil pressure is MUCH more stable.

Yes, sometimes it's dead quiet, and other times I hear a single, faint tick...but I can live with that. And it's getting better every day. I'm sticking with this oil for the life of the truck.

mokeman,

Yes, those lifters are DEEP in the engine - I'm not surprised yours is noisiest below. Mine is too. I've used the 'pipe' thing for years and mine made noise where yours does. Driver's side, correct?

09silverado,

I believe (99% sure) there's a TSB on your lifters. GM had them redesigned in late '10, which is what I have.

The oil burning is what concerns me....You're at that 'magical' mileage when they do this. So far, I'm good. But, there's a ton of them out there that burn it like gasoline, and GM doesn't know why. Even if the dealer changes the pistons and rings, it doesn't last for many people. I guess we don't hear from those that it does. Google brings up a bunch that it didn't.

One buddy of mine has a '08 or '09 with iron block and 65k and it's dead silent and uses no oil, but he changes it every 5k and uses AC filter and Valvoline 5w-30 Synpower. I'd love to see the internals of this AFM 5.3L to get an idea of what's going on.

 

[hale]

Mine had the cold start since new and all attempts to fix failed, the noise is valves tick for 30 seconds, sometimes more and some less:

replaced all lifters, cam and oil pump, however, the first attempt to repair (lifters only) resulted in worst case where it sounded exactly like the vid in this post, the second repair included the new lifters (GM part numbers), cam and oil pump, this repair killed the noise in the vid?! but the cold start short tick remained. I tried all kind of oils as you did, no success so far.

08 5.3L AFM LC9.

one last thing the oil pressure now goes to around 30 or less at hot idle just after the last repair, minimum was around 40psi when was new, so it looks like the new pump and/or the repairs fixed/broke something.

Hope this help

 

[jimbo64]

Hi guys..been a while since I've logged on here. Thought I'd give an update on my truck. I now have 14.6k miles on it and am still running the same Mobil 1 0w-40 I put in last fall. It's got about 8,600 miles on it and my OLM is showing 21% life left. Oil is still clean looking and the dipstick level hasn't moved. I waited a good while to post this because I jumped the gun a little in my OP. This is the best engine I have ever owned!!! It has been dead silent, hot or cold since February and several thousand miles and is very strong. I attribute this to the oil and something I observed I could do with the engine. At 67 miles per hour on level highway, while in towing mode...the engine is turning about 2,400 rpm, and the AFM kicks in and out. It is my belief this higher-rpm lifter collapse/refill plus this oil is what did the trick. I have 40 psi hot on the highway and 30 psi in park hot. I haven't done the towing mode thing for a long time now and I still have no noise.

I would like to apologize to all that I offended for some of my earlier replies. I was just mad. I bought this truck to keep. Had it been a 2 year lease, I wouldn't have cared to do the dealer thing or just live with the noise.

Peace...hope this helps somebody. Worked for me.