NewB here - need advise for my TT setup

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GurgenPB

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Hey Guys

Visiting the board on the advise of one of the guys on the G35 forums. You guys are VERY knowledgeable int his area, and hence your advice will be greatly appreciated.

I am going with a TwinTurbo setup on my G35 and would like your expert recommendation on an oil I wasnt to use. I have browsed the forum for similar threads, UOAs and VOAs. I can't make much sense of the latter two, except that realizing that the additive checmistry is very important and that the stated viscosities are not always correct (i.e the w30 can be more viscous than w40 oil).

I would really like to go with a 0w30 or 0w40 SYNTHETIC oil. Waht would you recommend?

EDIT: I am in California so the temeprature spread is anywhere from 30-100 F.

Much appreciated.

Gurgen

[ April 08, 2004, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: GurgenPB ]
 
Redline 5w-30
Amsoil 0w-30
Mobil 1R 0w-30
German Castrol
Mobil 1 0w-40

S2k with LC works great in those engines and RL is probably the most durable oil for high performance cars. Mobil 1 R is new ($6.86qt from Avlube.com) and is loaded with ZDDP. German Castrol is another great oil but hard to find so I'd recommend that last due to supply issues. Also depends on what kind of HP your looking at.

[ April 08, 2004, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
That was quick, thanks a lot.

I am just not familiar with some of those abreviations (S2K, etc.)? Could you pleas explain. Plus I would really like to g owith 0wX oil for startup protection, given that 90% of engine wear occurs here.

Also, from reading some of the posts here, Amsoil is preferred over Redline? Am I right?

Gurgen
 
S2k= Series 2000 0w-30 oil.

Redline and S2k are high cost alternatives to the others. I'm not a fan of Series 2000 but it did show a great UOA in this engine.
Redline is now available at Advance Auto, it's more convienent to buy IMO. Amsoil Series 2000 is expensive at full cost. Redline uses a better base stock then the other synthetics and could probably take more abuse then the others as well. You really can't go wrong with any of them.

*Your best choice might be Redline 5w-40 year round.
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First,
welcome.gif


2nd, The signal-to-noise ratio here USUALLY is pretty high. I urge you to read and take EVERYTHING with large grains of salt, including this and my advice.

3rd, what does your owner's manual recommend for oil type and viscosities and in what temperature ranges?

4th, is the TT setup aftermarket? Are the turbos water- AND oil-cooled?

5th, why would you prefer a 0W- oil when you live in a very temperate climate? The Zeros require more viscosity-index improver (VII*) to achieve their relatively thick hot rating. I suggest you use a 5W or even a 10W if your environs never dip below freezing. Those 2 oils flow very well when cool and will have less (or even NO) VIIs to compromise their performance**.


*--you'll read lots of undefined aconyms here. People use them as if everyone in the world knows what, for instance, 'GC' and 'HT/HS' mean. ('GC' is German Castrol, highly respected around here, and 'HT/HS' means high-temperature/high-shear and applies to an oil-film-strength test performed at 150°C. that IMO is quite useful in determining the goodness of oil in your (and my, with a Porsche Cayenne Turbo) application.

**--VIIs are (synthetic) chemicals that are used to thicken oil at high temperatures. Unfortunately, they're low in every other positive aspect of engine oil, such as oiliness, film strength, detergency/dispersancy (sp?), etc. Higher levels of VIIs (such as required in a very-broad-viscosity-range oil such as 0W-40) are IMO to be avoided if possible. However, I do not wish to overstate my opinion here. LOTS of very fine engine oils exist with at-least-some VII in them.

This is pretty funny. THREE posts got in here before mine. I guess I'm just slow and probably too wordy.

[ April 08, 2004, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Jeffrey Behr ]
 
Buster's suggestions are good. Two other suggestions would be Delvac 1 5W-40 and Mobil 1 10W-30 and for good measure you could mix one quart 15W-50 for every 3 quarts of the 10W-30. Also I would do an oil analysis-thats the only really sure way too tell what is really happening with your engine.
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Oil Analysis
 
well...being a nissan tech, i know that our (yes, the Infiniti uses the SAME nissan V6 as our Z and Maxima's and Altima. albeit more power) VTC's-suck. Rather, they like to make noise and the end result is-replacement. Even when they prolly wont go bad for a looooong time, Nissan/Infiniti still replaces em'.

However, I believe that these VTC's would not have any issues and the ones that do would not have any more future problems if a good, 0w-XX syn. oil were used. Although the viscosity may be close, a crappy bulk (oh yeah, i mean crappy builk oils too-Citgo!!!IMO) oil does not flow as well up and through and over the VTC's when cold. the problem only occurs when cold (ambient) and using a TT setup will utterly destroy the need for a 5w-30 viscosity.

Nissan designed that engine for a non-turbo application (ECU wise) and uses a teeny tiny filter and crappy oil requirements because of it. In reality, a 0w-40 or a 5w-40 can be used stock and is definetely NEEDED for twin turbo setups. I wouldnt use the latter because of the aforementioned VTC issue(s).

You definetely want to focus on an oil that if made particulary for turbocharged engines like German made Castrol Syntec 0w-30 (VW/Audi Turbo engines and Porsches)or M1 0w-40. The otehrs listed are great as well but, id go for easy to get oils. however, if you can afford a twin turbo setup on an Infiniti, then you BETTER be able to afford an syn oil that cost $10 a quart like Fuch's 5w-40 or Redline!!! LOL!!!!!

Eitehr way, enjoy your new engine and dont worry about changing the oil every 3K miles. Do an UOA then decide!
 
WOW - I am really amazed at the quality of help in this forum you guys are absolutely super!

Now, to answer some of the questions:

Jeffrey Behr:
#1. Thanks very much
#2. Did you mean LOW? It's ok either way - so far so good.
#3. It recommends 5w30 I believe. That's the oil it came with.
#4. I am getting the aftermarket Power Enterprise TT kit. IHI BB turbos, expanded oil pan (extra 1 liter). An d I believ they are oil-cooled.
#5. The only reason I would prefer the 0w oil is to protect the engine better at startup, when the oil is cold (isn't it here where 90% of the wear occurs).

Christopher Jefferson,
What are VTC's (variable timing control?)? My ECU will be reflashed with altered A/F ratio, timing (at least 7 degrees need to be taken out). I alread ychange my oil at no more than 4K miles of use (M1 5w30 synth) and do NOT mind keeping up with that interval if it helps with the wear. I still do not understand why you prefer 0w40 over 5w40 b/c of VTC (still not sure what this means). Ideally, I am thinking, in the 0w40 spec, the 0 will help with cold starts, while the increased viscosity of 40 will help with the increased oil temp that I will CERTAINLY see with TTs.

My choices are between the two oils mentioned - 0w40 or 0w30. THe VII issue made me think a little though. I read that M1's (synth) UOA look superb, along with amsoils (i guess S2K), but not so much redline's. True? Do you guys know if the UOA (can't read them yet) for an M1 0-40 looks good, or should I go with a different brand. Which one has bar-none the best UOA for my kind of application - I guess this is the anwer I am lookign for.

You guys are the best, thanks again

Gurgen
 
My Audi A6 Biturbo gets nothing but German Castrol 0W30; I will caveat that by saying 0W30 is recommended so I feel VERY comfortable using it.
 
I got the same engine as you in my 350Z.

FYI: If you check Japanese Nissan (NISMO) website. They recommend 5W-40 for VQ35DE engines, and 10W-60 for Skyline GTR

the only problem is, 10W-60 are not easy to find in the US. Only BMW M series and Ferarri use them. :-(
 
A high signal-to-noise means there's a high amount of signal to a low amount of noise. That's the way we LIKE it but it doesn't always turn out that way.

So your turbos are only oil- and not also water-cooled!?!?

I'd still stay away from the Zeros. They all have too much VIIs, which one doesn't want if one has his 'druthers'. Also, your high low temperatures don't require a really thin oil. Why go THINNER than the manufacturer recommends? That's the WRONG way!

I'd use the same thing that I use in my Porsche Turbo--Red Line 5W-40.
 
Jeffrey, the signal to noise is definitely very good, it's just that you mentioned the large grains of salt, so I misunderstood that to be the opposite.

Thanks a lot for the info guys. It seems as though it is possible that the porshe and TT audis and the like are recommending the 0w30 oil to cover the people in the northern states of the US. I am inclined to think that for cali the 5w40 Redline/GC/Amsoil might be best. But when i see the TwinTurbo GTR getting the 10w60 recommendation, I am thinking that the Amsoil 15w50 maybe appropriate. (but then again the audi TTs are runnning as low as 0w30 with the Porshe TTs in the middle of the bunch - 5w40).

So which synthetic oil has the best UOA? I would love to stick with M1 5w40 synth oil if it is in fact good. Otherwise I do not mind spending much more for Redline - doesn't make that much of a difference given the cost of the gas that the car will be guzzling!

Again, thanks very much
Gurgen
 
A 0w-30 is fine and requires very little VII's. It's when you get into the 5w-40/5w-50/0w-40 spreads are you using more VII. RL 5w-40 is an excellent oil and has shown great results. But so has GC and S2k in this engine. These two 0w-30's are very shear stable. Mobil 1 R 0w-30 would be another great choice in this engine IMO. Lots to chose from....
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quote:
Originally posted by buster:
A 0w-30 is fine and requires very little VII's. It's when you get into the 5w-40/5w-50/0w-40 spreads are you using more VII. RL 5w-40 is an excellent oil and has shown great results.

....
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Click to expand...
True, but I believe Gurgen does NOT need a zero-vis oil (in his warm climate) and he DOES need a hot-40-vis oil for his warm/hot climate AND to cool and lubricate his turbos better. That's why I vote for Red line 5W-40 or even 10W-40 (which contains NO VII) in the summer.
 
The combination of very high localized heating, and mechanical loading in turbocharger bearings, will tend to shear the polymers in even very high quality synthetics.

My advice would be to run a 5w-30/10w-30 synthetic with little or no polymer. This is the best both in terms of shearing and polymer induced, high temp varnish and carbon deposits, ie ring sticking.

Since you live in CA, I'd look for the Redline 5w-30 or 10w-30 at a retail shop. Redline is based in Martinez, CA and is widely available out there. Redline also seems to do fine with the specific type of metallurgy used in Nissan, main and rod bearings ....
 
An aftermarket turbo in a Cali summer?

Mobil1 15w-50
Redline 5w-40
or any other premium synthetic xw-50 weight.

I dont know why some are recommending 30 weights.
That might be a good oil for a VQ35de in a mild climate and non turbo.

Fred..
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quote:
Originally posted by GurgenPB:



I would really like to go with a 0w30 or 0w40 SYNTHETIC oil. Waht would you recommend?

EDIT: I am in California so the temeprature spread is anywhere from 30-100 F.


Click to expand...
This is what I would run in it no doubt.......

Synergyn 3w-30

It's not because a quart costs only 4.70 when one buys a 5 gallon pail it's because this oil delivers every weekend across the USA
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Been there and done it with the oil
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My next choice would be Synergyn's 5w-30 then Mobil 0w-40 if availability is of issue .

That Mobil 0w-30 might really be a good oil though but without feedback no-one knows yet .
 
Jeffrey,

I just don't think the 0-30 northerners understand Just How Hot it gets in the southwest
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15-50 pours like water in the summer out in my garage. The thread post audi guy doesn't need 0 weight IMHO.

My favorite is looking at the oil weight charts in the manuals, and most of hte time it stops at 104. What about us in the desert who experience 117 ?? It's time for the 40 to 50 weight oils.
In my experience, it gets to be dang hot in LA basin as well, maybe not 117
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Go with the redline 40 weight..

Josh, in phoenix.
 
TooSlick has got a point - the turbos are far harder on the oil than the engine could ever be, given their 20-30,000 turbine rpms.

Now I have boiled it down to RL10-40. GGiven that the GTR get a 20w50 recommendation, and that it can get pretty cold in Japan, I am thining that the 15w50 Amsoil might not be too bad either. But given the availability problem for these oils, I guess M1 10w40 or 15w40 may not be a bad idea.

Would you say that M1 is as good as Redline in the 5/10w40 range? This is just in case I can't readily find RL in my area.

Again, you guys are awesome.

Gurgen
 
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