New XOM - Ester FE 2.X

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Link Ester FE 2.X To help passenger and heavy-duty vehicle engine oils extend fuel economy in 5W+ grades while conforming to SAE J300 specs, we have developed Ester FE 2.X, a co-base stock ester from bio-based feedstock that provides: Low viscosity Low volatility High viscosity index (VI) Low traction
 
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Prospect, KY
Originally Posted by sloinker
Wow! XOM making a synthetic with synthetic base stocks? It feels like 1979 all over again.
Yes they tried to stop Castrol them decided to join them
 
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14,854
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Illinois
Originally Posted by sloinker
Wow! XOM making a synthetic with synthetic base stocks? It feels like 1979 all over again.
Always has. All M1 oils have some ester as well as PAO. Remember a blended base stock provides a better overall lubricant.
 
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They are making a deal.of having 5% ester in this article. By looking at the ads and XOM own literature there may be little.or.no group 4 or 5 in many of its oils. Grp 3 and an add pack with vats of grp.4 and 5 nearby in the blending facility for testing purposes and resale to boutiques.
 
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14,854
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Illinois
Originally Posted by sloinker
They are making a deal.of having 5% ester in this article. By looking at the ads and XOM own literature there may be little.or.no group 4 or 5 in many of its oils. Grp 3 and an add pack with vats of grp.4 and 5 nearby in the blending facility for testing purposes and resale to boutiques.
Wrong. All M1 oils have a sufficient amount of PAO. Some have a majority of PAO. Like EP and AP. Remember a blended Base stock is an improvement over PAO or esters alone in engine lubricants.
 
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by sloinker
They are making a deal.of having 5% ester in this article. By looking at the ads and XOM own literature there may be little.or.no group 4 or 5 in many of its oils. Grp 3 and an add pack with vats of grp.4 and 5 nearby in the blending facility for testing purposes and resale to boutiques.
Unless you're trying to make a 0w-20 or 0w-16 for bad cold starts, you don't want an oil that's a majority group IV or V. I consider the best blend of synthetic base oils to be 60-70% group III, 20-30% PAO, and 5-10% POE. There's no need for more than that (for most). For the conditions the vast majority of cars see, there's nothing to benefit by using more PAO or POE. Group III base oils have better solubility, pressure-viscosity coefficient, and additive response compared to PAO. Even for oils that consistently see high temps, you still wouldn't see any real benefit from a majority PAO. PAO has better oxidation resistance, but the AO additives have a greater effect on that than the difference between groups III and IV.
 
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1,031
Location
montreal ,canada
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by sloinker
They are making a deal.of having 5% ester in this article. By looking at the ads and XOM own literature there may be little.or.no group 4 or 5 in many of its oils. Grp 3 and an add pack with vats of grp.4 and 5 nearby in the blending facility for testing purposes and resale to boutiques.
Wrong. All M1 oils have a sufficient amount of PAO. Some have a majority of PAO. Like EP and AP. Remember a blended Base stock is an improvement over PAO or esters alone in engine lubricants.
Agree with tig1 here. I would think that a long drain oil would probably benefit from majority pao. Don't agree with his incessant defense of XOM though.
 
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14,854
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Illinois
Originally Posted by madeej11
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by sloinker
They are making a deal.of having 5% ester in this article. By looking at the ads and XOM own literature there may be little.or.no group 4 or 5 in many of its oils. Grp 3 and an add pack with vats of grp.4 and 5 nearby in the blending facility for testing purposes and resale to boutiques.
Wrong. All M1 oils have a sufficient amount of PAO. Some have a majority of PAO. Like EP and AP. Remember a blended Base stock is an improvement over PAO or esters alone in engine lubricants.
Agree with tig1 here. I would think that a long drain oil would probably benefit from majority pao. Don't agree with his incessant defense of XOM though.
Is that wrong or should I on occasion pick at them for something perceived not right. Well son here goes! I think this new oil in a box is plain stupid that XM is pushing in WM!! How's that? However the oil in the stupid box is fantastic!! WWF
 
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2,727
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Some of XOM's oil indeed does have PAO and a dash of POE. Majority or significant amount? Not so sure. I'm thinking a lot of it doesn't by reading the available literature. When it says 1-50% it may be 1%. Without labeling transparency it is an unknown. I have used M1 on and off over the years, perfectly good oil in the proper application like SuperTech synthetic is good also.
 

4WD

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17,291
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Texas
Well, I bought a pretty big stock of majority PAO M1 AP (clearances) and now I'm a bit like the dog who caught the car. I have two engines that use this 0w20 … but they are GDI and I'm really not into sending money to blackstone for sport. Thinking run it to 6k … change the $4 PF63E … add a quart of SAE30 for viscosity … run to ————- (fill in)
 

OVERKILL

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46,412
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by sloinker
They are making a deal.of having 5% ester in this article. By looking at the ads and XOM own literature there may be little.or.no group 4 or 5 in many of its oils. Grp 3 and an add pack with vats of grp.4 and 5 nearby in the blending facility for testing purposes and resale to boutiques.
I assume you missed the part in the picture that showed that the "Prototype GF-6 oil" also had 5% Group V....
 
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5,361
Location
Paramount, California
Originally Posted by emod
Please note that the 5w-30 prototype with Ester FE 2.x has 42% more viscosity modifiers (VM) in it. [Linked Image]
Yep, the ester-based alternative sucks. Thinner base oil (lower BO KV100 (BOV)) and more VII. The improvement in the fuel economy is because of the high VII content, and it has nothing to do with the ester. However, high VII content and lower base-oil viscosity increases wear. High VII content also increases engine, intake-valve, and turbocharger deposits.
 
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5,361
Location
Paramount, California
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by sloinker
Wow! XOM making a synthetic with synthetic base stocks? It feels like 1979 all over again.
Always has. All M1 oils have some ester as well as PAO. Remember a blended base stock provides a better overall lubricant.
Nope, none of the Mobil 1 formulations have any ester whatsoever, except the FS and ESP Euro formulations. Instead they have Group V AN (alkylated naphthalene), like in the GF-6 example they gave above. The FS and ESP Euro formulations don't have Group V AN but they have POE ester instead.
 
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5,361
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Paramount, California
This is such nonsense from ExxonMobil. The whole concept makes no sense. It makes me question if I should use their products. https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/...gine-oils/fuel-efficiency-5w-engine-oils They are basically saying a lower base-oil viscosity and a higher VII content is better, which goes against what virtually everyone else says with respect to wear, engine and turbocharger deposits, etc. Why not have a 0W-30 if you want to have a lower base-oil viscosity and a higher VII content? Again, I understand the desire to improve the fuel economy of 5W-30 oils, but this makes little sense. I repeat my spreadsheet here that lists the base-oil viscosity (BO DV150) and VII content of selected oils that I keep posting here. I had already discovered that Mobil 1 oils have by far the thinnest base oils and highest VII content. They want to make their base oils even thinner with more VII with the GF-6 transition. Now, with this disclosure of theirs, it has been proven that this is their corporate philosophy. Estimated base-oil viscosity (BO DV150) and VII content of selected oils
 

4WD

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17,291
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Texas
Any of these formulas still have to pass the same tests … don't think you have seen those tests …
 

buster

Thread starter
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34,464
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Gokhan, strict tests have to be met. You've seen photos of how well M1 does in turbo tests (much better than other oils). That's what matters most. We don't know what VII they are using. I always keep in mind M1 is made up of 15-18 components.
 
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5,361
Location
Paramount, California
Originally Posted by 4WD
Chart did not detail much on the VM … but appears they knew this was coming https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/lubricant-trends/advanced-viscosity-modifiers/
Come on, it's such a marketing gimmick. They are comparing their product to PMA VII. No oil uses PMA VII these days -- it's pretty awful because it requires extremely high polymer treat rates. I am pretty sure it's OCP VII, which is the VII of choice these days because of its tendency to reduce deposit formation.
 
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