New wheels and tires on our VW Passat

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Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Originally Posted by Skippy722
This is BITOG, you're not allowed to ENJOY a car. They are merely soul sucking appliances designed to go from point A to point B as cheaply and "reliably" as possible, aka the Camry.

How much stiffer is it with the sport shocks and springs? I'm considering doing the same to my 300. I'll likely leave the sway bars alone, unless that provides a massive improvement.


For our Passat, using the components I purposely selected for the suspension upgrade, the ride is still very nice. It's not "stiff" or "harsh", not even close. But this is no surprise and is exactly what I wanted for this car. I've always been a suspension tuner and have changed just about every car we've bought in the last 40 years. Literally. In other words, I know what I'm doing.

My primary advice to you is that you do not lower your 300S too much. This is a common mistake that people make on all cars. The biggest thing is that you'll be smacking the bump stops more frequently than you should be. This is not only hard on the chassis, it makes for unpredictable handling characteristics. Secondly, lower too much and you increase the risk of grinding your front clip on driveways and curb stops.

I poked around for springs for your 300S. H&R does not offer anything. Eibach does, the Pro-Kit. I've used both H&R and Eibach over the years and consider them of equal quality. Eibach makes a spring for your 300S but the Pro-Kit may lower your car more than you want (and the Pro-Kit is their most mild spring). Struts and shocks? If you do put lowering springs in your car, always install new struts and shocks. I've always preferred Bilsteins over Konis because of Bilstein's much stronger "monotube" design (in the case of struts). That said, I've found that Bilsteins for German cars are made in Germany, while Bilsteins made for American cars are made in USA. The American made Bilsteins are, sadly, of a completely different design than the German made versions. The only thing they have in common is the yellow paint!

I suggest you join a Chrysler 300 forum. There are many. You can learn a lot there. But once again, don't lower your car too much!!!!!

Scott


Thank you for the warnings! I may just beef the sway bars up, get some better shocks but leave the springs alone. I was eyeballing the Bilstein shocks and struts. It's already low and riding on 20's, looks lower than even my brothers Daytona Charger.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Those are sweet upgrades. Unfortunately VW softens vehicles these days for US market. That Passat rides on Skoda Superb platform, which proved really good.


VW makes vehicles more in-tuned for the US Market, shared with certain ROW markets, where they can.

Technically, the NMS Passat rides on a derivative of the PQ46 Platform (B6 & B7 Passat & CC), which itself is a derivative of the PQ35 platform (MK5 & MK6 Golf platform)

Sadly, the redesigned Passat will still continue on the PQ46 platform, instead of being on the MQB platform like the Chinese version of the similarly styled Passat.
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Originally Posted by Skippy722
This is BITOG, you're not allowed to ENJOY a car. They are merely soul sucking appliances designed to go from point A to point B as cheaply and "reliably" as possible, aka the Camry.

How much stiffer is it with the sport shocks and springs? I'm considering doing the same to my 300. I'll likely leave the sway bars alone, unless that provides a massive improvement.


For our Passat, using the components I purposely selected for the suspension upgrade, the ride is still very nice. It's not "stiff" or "harsh", not even close. But this is no surprise and is exactly what I wanted for this car. I've always been a suspension tuner and have changed just about every car we've bought in the last 40 years. Literally. In other words, I know what I'm doing.

My primary advice to you is that you do not lower your 300S too much. This is a common mistake that people make on all cars. The biggest thing is that you'll be smacking the bump stops more frequently than you should be. This is not only hard on the chassis, it makes for unpredictable handling characteristics. Secondly, lower too much and you increase the risk of grinding your front clip on driveways and curb stops.

I poked around for springs for your 300S. H&R does not offer anything. Eibach does, the Pro-Kit. I've used both H&R and Eibach over the years and consider them of equal quality. Eibach makes a spring for your 300S but the Pro-Kit may lower your car more than you want (and the Pro-Kit is their most mild spring). Struts and shocks? If you do put lowering springs in your car, always install new struts and shocks. I've always preferred Bilsteins over Konis because of Bilstein's much stronger "monotube" design (in the case of struts). That said, I've found that Bilsteins for German cars are made in Germany, while Bilsteins made for American cars are made in USA. The American made Bilsteins are, sadly, of a completely different design than the German made versions. The only thing they have in common is the yellow paint!

I suggest you join a Chrysler 300 forum. There are many. You can learn a lot there. But once again, don't lower your car too much!!!!!

Scott


Thank you for the warnings! I may just beef the sway bars up, get some better shocks but leave the springs alone. I was eyeballing the Bilstein shocks and struts. It's already low and riding on 20's, looks lower than even my brothers Daytona Charger.

Anti-roll bars are always a good starting point. I took a fast look, but didn't see any Bilstein offerings for your car. Check the Chrysler 300 forums for other options. With 20" wheels I'd be careful with spring/shock choice if you decided to change. Start with the anti-roll bars. That will make a big difference, and typically they are easy to install. But check your car first. Some cars require more extensive disassembly to install anti-roll bars.

Scott
 
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Those are sweet upgrades. Unfortunately VW softens vehicles these days for US market. That Passat rides on Skoda Superb platform, which proved really good.


VW makes vehicles more in-tuned for the US Market, shared with certain ROW markets, where they can.

Technically, the NMS Passat rides on a derivative of the PQ46 Platform (B6 & B7 Passat & CC), which itself is a derivative of the PQ35 platform (MK5 & MK6 Golf platform)

Sadly, the redesigned Passat will still continue on the PQ46 platform, instead of being on the MQB platform like the Chinese version of the similarly styled Passat.

Yeah, I know all that. My poiunt is, US Passat is using exactly same derivative as Skoda Superb, which is one of the best hidden gems on the Euro market.
And you are right, VW philosophy in the US these days is: let's get Toyota customers.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Those are sweet upgrades. Unfortunately VW softens vehicles these days for US market. That Passat rides on Skoda Superb platform, which proved really good.


VW makes vehicles more in-tuned for the US Market, shared with certain ROW markets, where they can.

Technically, the NMS Passat rides on a derivative of the PQ46 Platform (B6 & B7 Passat & CC), which itself is a derivative of the PQ35 platform (MK5 & MK6 Golf platform)

Sadly, the redesigned Passat will still continue on the PQ46 platform, instead of being on the MQB platform like the Chinese version of the similarly styled Passat.

Yeah, I know all that. My poiunt is, US Passat is using exactly same derivative as Skoda Superb, which is one of the best hidden gems on the Euro market.
And you are right, VW philosophy in the US these days is: let's get Toyota customers.


Technically the current Superb is on the MQB platform. Just because a platform is shared, it doesn't mean it can be the same as the other car, unless they are blantant rebadges, which the American companies once did when they had redundant brands.

The Chrysler 300 used a E-class chassis, but it didn't make the 300 is great car, due to the tweaks Chrysler did to make the 300 to the American tastes. Likewise, there are different executions of how VW used the PQ46 platform on the NMS Passat, vs Skoda used it on the PQ46 Superb (but the Superb is more akin to a B6/B7 Passat than a NMS Passat).
 
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Those are sweet upgrades. Unfortunately VW softens vehicles these days for US market. That Passat rides on Skoda Superb platform, which proved really good.


VW makes vehicles more in-tuned for the US Market, shared with certain ROW markets, where they can.

Technically, the NMS Passat rides on a derivative of the PQ46 Platform (B6 & B7 Passat & CC), which itself is a derivative of the PQ35 platform (MK5 & MK6 Golf platform)

Sadly, the redesigned Passat will still continue on the PQ46 platform, instead of being on the MQB platform like the Chinese version of the similarly styled Passat.

Yeah, I know all that. My poiunt is, US Passat is using exactly same derivative as Skoda Superb, which is one of the best hidden gems on the Euro market.
And you are right, VW philosophy in the US these days is: let's get Toyota customers.


Technically the current Superb is on the MQB platform. Just because a platform is shared, it doesn't mean it can be the same as the other car, unless they are blantant rebadges, which the American companies once did when they had redundant brands.

The Chrysler 300 used a E-class chassis, but it didn't make the 300 is great car, due to the tweaks Chrysler did to make the 300 to the American tastes. Likewise, there are different executions of how VW used the PQ46 platform on the NMS Passat, vs Skoda used it on the PQ46 Superb (but the Superb is more akin to a B6/B7 Passat than a NMS Passat).


OP here. All this is interesting info. I understand what ROW means, and that the MQB is a newer chassis to the PQ46 (my Passat, right?).

But what does NMS mean?

Scott
 
OP here again,

I am correct and saying that the VW Passat has used the PQ46 platform since 2005, and even then the PQ46 morphed from the PQ35 on the Mk 5 and Mk 6 Golfs.

Do I have that right?

I am curious then, was the PQ46 so good that it was used for this long of as production run? Was the PQ46 a good chassis, or was this simply cost cutting on the part of VW? The PQ46 spanned B6/B7 Passat generations, 2005-present. That's a long production run. With the suspension changes I made to our 2016 B7, I feel like I'm getting truly good chassis performance. Even with it being stiffened up I don't feel any body flex or shake. Pavement seam impacts don't hammer the chassis with a BANG. The PQ46 seems like a solid flex free platform with decent suspension geometry and road noise isolation. Was that why it was used so long? I actually like the PQ46 chassis (after my modifications), The biggest limitation of the Passat is that it is a deceptively large car. But set up like our Passat is, our car provides truly outstanding twisty road performance - considering it's such a large car.

Scott
 
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
OP here again,

I am correct and saying that the VW Passat has used the PQ46 platform since 2005, and even then the PQ46 morphed from the PQ35 on the Mk 5 and Mk 6 Golfs.

Do I have that right?

I am curious then, was the PQ46 so good that it was used for this long of as production run? Was the PQ46 a good chassis, or was this simply cost cutting on the part of VW? The PQ46 spanned B6/B7 Passat generations, 2005-present. That's a long production run. With the suspension changes I made to our 2016 B7, I feel like I'm getting truly good chassis performance. Even with it being stiffened up I don't feel any body flex or shake. Pavement seam impacts don't hammer the chassis with a BANG. The PQ46 seems like a solid flex free platform with decent suspension geometry and road noise isolation. Was that why it was used so long? I actually like the PQ46 chassis (after my modifications), The biggest limitation of the Passat is that it is a deceptively large car. But set up like our Passat is, our car provides truly outstanding twisty road performance - considering it's such a large car.

Scott

Yes, IMO PQ46 is excellent platform. My reference was that NA Passat used Superb version of PQ46 platform (And UG_Passat is right, since than Superb moved to MQB). Skoda was always kind of VW for those who know better (I had two) as it offered ssame stuff, and in case of Superb longer wheel base, but at smaller price tag. It is cost cutting on VW part, BUT that does not mean that somehow this Passat is not that good vehicle. I think Passat is best buy in the US, and with VR6 engine, much better buy that anything Toyota or Honda. Of course, it is not platform (cannot remember name) that was used on Passat B5. That platform was shared with Audi and had longitudinal engine. But VW decided to separate Passat from A4/6 as in Europe it was seriously cutting into Audi.
 
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
OP here again,

I am correct and saying that the VW Passat has used the PQ46 platform since 2005, and even then the PQ46 morphed from the PQ35 on the Mk 5 and Mk 6 Golfs.

Do I have that right?

I am curious then, was the PQ46 so good that it was used for this long of as production run? Was the PQ46 a good chassis, or was this simply cost cutting on the part of VW? The PQ46 spanned B6/B7 Passat generations, 2005-present. That's a long production run. With the suspension changes I made to our 2016 B7, I feel like I'm getting truly good chassis performance. Even with it being stiffened up I don't feel any body flex or shake. Pavement seam impacts don't hammer the chassis with a BANG. The PQ46 seems like a solid flex free platform with decent suspension geometry and road noise isolation. Was that why it was used so long? I actually like the PQ46 chassis (after my modifications), The biggest limitation of the Passat is that it is a deceptively large car. But set up like our Passat is, our car provides truly outstanding twisty road performance - considering it's such a large car.

Scott


As I understand the PQ46 is a good platform, I had a 2015 Passat TDI, but the American version is called NMS (new midsize sedan) and the European version is the B7 and has since 2014 moved to the MQB platform. The European B7 is not as big as the NMS and the PQ46 chassis will carry over to the 2020 redesign.

https://www.autonews.com/article/20...ld-platform-update-styling-tech-for-2020
 
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