Hello, I plan on using this in the garden tractor but haven't used it yet. It'll be a while before I get there. It appears to be an excellent new option. When I do I will be sure to post it in the appropriate forum. Thanks
New Super Tech 15w-40 CK-4/SN Full Synthetic HDEO VOA w/PC
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Any updates on this oil with a UOA?
Currently running it in my 2001 Jeep XJ Cherokee. No complaints. It will also go in my John Deere 1023e next oil change.
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Nice. Plan on doing a UOA?
That’s cool and all, but additive ppms aren’t what makes an oil pass approvals. The proper additives at the correct levels, combined with appropriate base oils & other additives is. Appreciate the VOA though.
I personally think those 4&6u counts are fairly concerning- they’re particles your filter has a very low chance of getting out, even over an entire OCI. They’re also the size proven to cause a majority of wear. This is probably a serviceable oil for equipment that calls for this grade (nothing SN calls for a 15w40 that I’m aware of, so that means realistically it’s “not” a dual-rated oil), but no way am I passing up Mobil 1 or Pennzoil top-tier offerings to sub this oil in its place. Thanks!
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What are you seeing that is concerning? Im not following your lingo above.
Remember those particle counts are per milliliter of oil… so take your total volume of oil in liters and multiply the ISO count for a given size by 1000 times the number of liters (5L * 1000 * 48,405 4u particles)… and that’s roughly how many particles of that given size are floating in your sump. With those numbers you’re talking very high amounts. If that sample jug was 5L, that jug has nearly 250 million 4u particles in it… when it’s “clean”. And so on for all the sizes above that. See the concern now?
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Lead , tin and aluminum? Yeah i understand
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Your Welcome & thanks for helping provide for the VOA list (although it is down right now but will fix soon). Oil is a recipe for certain. However, Additives play a huge role in that recipe. I'd assume that emissions compliance is part of OEM's/Additive Co's testing & lower additives are preferred or required to pass as one example of the very importance of passing tests via add pack to get approvals.
Additives are also certainly one way to get wear reduced. It's why I've seen 10w-30's that advertise like they're near as good as a 15w-40. One way they accomplish that is increasing additives. Additives aren't cheap & you'll see that boutique oils use good base oils but also use higher additives to go the extra distance. Hence I set the highest to lowest additive packages as the theme. It does need to be balanced correctly for the application though & dumping the most additives in is not the answer. However, do you think this oil or any of the oils listed don't have the right balance to meet approvals, high or low? When I exclaim it has "high additives" doesn't mean we're talking about a no name brand that failed a PQIA test. I don't have any problem with the high additives of this ST or the other high ones listed & I'll assume it's been tested to meet applications.
Some of these oil are dual rated for fleet use. Chevron (?) & Mobil (1300) come to mind since they have dual rated CK-4/SN that has lower additives for gasoline. In that sense is where "Dual" rated is stated.
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I am trying to understand this assessment: the additives which are anti wear will actually cause more wear? As in sand against the reciprocating and spinning parts?
Too low of ZDDP and there's not enough P to film coat/protect the metal surfaces. This results in adhesive wear due to metal-metal contact.
Too high of ZDDP and it attacks the metal surface. Corrosive wear. The surface corrodes and the corrosion products get scrubbed away by the movement. Light bulb: there's a happy balance that avoids corrosive and adhesive wear.
The ZDDP is also being attacked by detergents, namely calcium. (ZDDP's job is to coat the metal. Detergents are there to clean it.) So lower ZDDP can still protect if the calcium is lowered, which you get to do if you substitute other detergents (like magnesium), and other anti-wear agents (like moly), and dispersants to keep the contaminants in solution. You also get to lower your ZDDP if you use formulations that last longer, so that you're not running thin at the end of the OCI. You also get to lower your detergent level if you assume modern low sulfur fuels aren't creating sulfuric acid in your sump, so you don't need to account for that in your TBN.
So it's simple. We reduce calcium and ZDDP in proportion, right? Add substitutes like moly and magnesium. Boom we're all oil formulating experts with tribology certs, a youtoob channel, and a nerdy t-shirt. Not so fast.
First, you need all this stuff to be soluble in whatever base oils you've chosen, which also need to meet your target viscosity, htts, etc.
Second, as you reduced calcium, which is not only a detergent but also has the added benefit of friction reduction, you realize you might want to use something like Boron for additional friction reduction without the detergent characteristic. So easy, just trade ZDDP/Calcium balance for Boron. Easy. (Well, only if all ZDDP, all calcium, all moly, and all boron is equally effective on a PPM basis.)
See, all these additives don't just have a single effect. Each additive does multiple things - some good, some bad. When you adjust one you create or remove the need for others. (I'm sure I have glossed over much in this respect.)
So why does this UOA of Supertech full syn look much different than some of the "lite" diesel synthetics with only 800 ppm Z and P (think Delo 5w-30). Does that make one better? Not really. The lite oils attempt to solve the same problem using different tools, and are perhaps easier on after treatment. (Ironically you might want to use a lower additive oil in your worn motor.)
What is Ford really accomplishing with the 1000 ppm P requirement? It's like saying you MUST have X quantity of moly to be effective, but not recognizing that different thiocarbamates are used. They all show up as moly on an analysis, but have different potencies/efficiencies per PPM.
Short reply - VOA/UOA doesn't really tell us everything about the constitution of the oil.
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This is a great post. Thanks. I'm a huge SuperTech fan.
I think more and more people are going to jump on the SuperTech train for all their synthetic oil purchases.
There really isn't any reason to pay more for some other brand.
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Precisely, Last time I checked, been a couple months, it was $15.xx. That is a great deal for Full Synthetic HDEO. It may not be on the level of some of the latest marketing like "Advanced Full Synthetic" but that is not really necessary to get a good value out of these types of oils.
Just tossed this stuff in one of my Jeep 4.0 XJ, after noticing a slight, but concerning noise I suspect is lifter noise. Suddenly in he past 3-4 years formerly super reliable 4.0 enginee have been dissolving lifters and camshafts, noted on the Jeep forums and youtube. Something us VERY wrong with modern oils in these old motors. Not sure which oil is most like old formulations. Dino oil? Which one?
This is starting to feel like when taking the lead out of gas trashed millions of valvetrains.
Of note, this oil did eliminate the noise. Not sure what is really going on.
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It is higher ish in zinc and phos so it could help that noise. I would keep running it. The older engines needed more zinc. This is one of the highest zinc numbers ive seen and honestly why I use diesel oils even in my gas cars. As long as they are SN rated too. Which this is.
What is the zinc content? I've looked hard but cannot find it.
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1333 zinc or something of that nature its at the very beginning of this thread bro. The voa is there
I'm used to seeing ZDDP numbers. Is the measured zinc in that UOA (1344ppm) high compared to other oils? What about compared to oils of the past before taking all the zinc out became a thing?
Edit: nevermind. I now see that is a good, very high Zinc number. I guess this is my oil in the old jeeps for the time being. I don't see anything else better out there. Hope the rear main doesn't start leaking again since I'm switching away from "high milage" oil that stopped the leak completely.
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If all else fails with rear main. Throw 1 quart of 20w50 in it vr1 or mobil 15w50. Yeh the high mileage stuff helps seals for sure. But its a bandaid. Id say thicker is better. In an older jeep like that hell id run straight 15w50 mobil. Has similar zinc levels and thicker so that it wont leak past seals. Its cheap. 25 for 5 quarts. Excellent quality. But you do you
