New Subaru BRZ--going to the track

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Cujet


The Mustang 5.0 Track Pack and Boss require 5W-50. Heck, even the Ford engineer involved in the Coyote engine's testing stated that 5W-20 was for CAFE reasons and not for longevity.

All that aside, if you do track your car with 20 vis oil, do all of us a favor and perform a Used Oil Analysis of the oil used at the track. While UOA results are not perfect, it may help you choose the right oil. My best guess (based on 35 years of track day experience) is that you will see higher wear with thin oils at track days.

You may have 35 years of track day experience but you don't appear to have gotten over your irrational thick oil bias.
The motivation to use 20 grade oils may be to optimize fuel economy but it would be a mistake to assume engine longevity has been negatively affected in any way and every engineer on and off the record will tell you that.
Optimizing an engine oils viscosity isn't rocket science. That's why there are 20 grade, and so-called 15 grade, 10, 5 and 2 grade race oils.

Also you must have been living under a rock as there is no shortage of 20 grade UOAs (including my own) of tracked cars.
And since this thread is about the FA20 engine you've conveniently over looked the UOA of a tracked FR-S on the very light Sustina 0W-20 that's already been posted in this thread.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
^^^If I were going to steadily track a Vette, with sticky tires, it would have a built engine and an aftermarket, multi-stage dry sump system on it.

And I wouldn't be running a 20 grade oil in it.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
And since this thread is about the FA20 engine


It's interesting at this juncture to go back into the thread and see exactly where Ford came into the Subaru thread.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: bmrlvr
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
tdpark -Some dealers will just look at the tires, or other items, and deny a Powertrain warranty claim based on the fact that the car looks like it was subjected to abuse or track driving. I know dealers have pics from SoA on commonly abused items.

As far as the owners manual goes:

Quote:
The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when
the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a
higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high
speeds, or under extreme load conditions.


OP - I believe you're on FT86club. Try to find the uoa on Motul 5W-30 300V by AZP Installs. He did a good job of shearing that oil during track conditions and 300V is a very stout oil. He also posted his oil temps.

His car is pretty much a race car though (but no forced induction and stock internals) and he's also a NASA Northeast instructor, so his car gets a good thrashing at the track. It probably depends on what your track time is like.

One track day is probably fine on the factory fill (and I think you've received feedback from others that have done this), but I would at least do a mix of M1 0W-20 (or TGMO 0W-20) and M1 0W-40.

-Dennis




Since I have a MityVac, why can't I drain about 2 quarts of the factory fill and replace with 2 quarts of M1 0w-40? Then after the event, I do a full change back to 0w-20.

Oil is cheap. I wouldn't go to the track on the FF for a numbers of reasons including also that we don't know what the actual viscosity is. A sub 20 grade oil is sometimes used in Japanese made engines.
I'd suggest a fresh fill of TGMO 0W-20. For reasons previously given I wouldn't bother to thicken it up, you won't be seeing high oil temp's at this time of year.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

but you don't appear to have gotten over your irrational thick oil bias.
it would be a mistake to assume engine longevity has been negatively affected

Also you must have been living under a rock as there is no shortage of 20 grade UOAs (including my own) of tracked cars.


No thick oil bias here. Just the simple fact that a 0W-20 viscosity oil at 275F on a track day is substantially pushing one's luck.

Agreed on engine longevity. For all the right reasons too. Today's oils pump rapidly, provide sufficient film strength and result in very long engine life.

Also, my the "rock" I live under makes every attempt at practicality. We were using very thin synthetic oils WAY back in the early 1980's as one "trick" to achieve over 200MPH at Daytona. It did take some changes to make that practical, but as you very well know, success was the result.

I take my 0W-40 M1 recommendation back OP. Stay with the OEM recommended 0W-20 oil in your brand new car, don't bother with an oil cooler, let your oil temp climb, and enjoy your track days. Make a few high RPM downshifts, and don't worry, the ECU's programming will keep your engine completely safe.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65661&highlight=bearing+failure

 

[Nate1979]

OP: your owners manual states very clearly that when operated at high speeds and loads a heavier weight oil may be more appropriate - you should listen to it. Only one company, Subaru has the level of data to make this statement whereas consistently people in this thread have pushed their own biased agenda without data to prove it. I would not trust my engine to people who cant even offer a reasonable number of real relevant data points to make recommendations againt what the manufacturer recommends.

On the otherhand if someone can bring a spreadsheet of data points proving you wont hurt your engine longevity by running 0w-20 then go ahead.

 

[LaszloToth]

Oil choice really doesn't have the gravity that it seems to in some of these discussions.

In general the best guidance is 'quality fluids' as Crawford Performance so concisely put it.

If you're nearing the end of your oil change interval, I'd change it before heading out to the track. For piece of mind I might run a little heavier blend because of the track day even though I know it's not required.

If you're new to a track environment then you're not going to push it nearly as hard as any purpose-built track vehicle and therefore it's really a different service environment.

Supplemental oil coolers are for the service environment where you intend to take it to the track frequently, and push it harder and harder as your skills improve and your gear gets upgraded.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
OP: your owners manual states very clearly that when operated at high speeds and loads a heavier weight oil may be more appropriate - you should listen to it. Only one company, Subaru has the level of data to make this statement whereas consistently people in this thread have pushed their own biased agenda without data to prove it. I would not trust my engine to people who cant even offer a reasonable number of real relevant data points to make recommendations againt what the manufacturer recommends.

On the otherhand if someone can bring a spreadsheet of data points proving you wont hurt your engine longevity by running 0w-20 then go ahead.


Good points! If the OM states it why not play it safe with a "thicker" oil for track days? Why tempt fate? Especially when the mfg. is blessing the use of a "thicker" oil.

 

[bubbatime]

Running a high quality synthetic 5W30 at a MINIMUM has no real downside. Not sure what all the hubub is about.

OP, run a grade thicker and sleep better at night.

If it were mine I would run synthetic VR1.

or Mobil 1 High Mileage

 

[CELICA_XX]

Originally Posted By: bmrlvr
Hallett Motor Racing Circuit--about 40 miles west of Tulsa

Great track !!

I used to take my Supra there in the 90's