Just ordered a Hitachi 1TB 7200 HDD and a Silicon Power 120 BG SSD with bracket for 88.48 from Newegg today. I will update after install.
New SSD and HDD
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SSD operating system/program drive with a couple of games is the awesomeness. Running 120gb Corsair SSD, 1TB 7200 rpm seagate HDD for games, and 2TB 5900 RPM Western Digital for movies, pictures, music, etc.
I love it. 10 second boot times and plenty of storage for around 100 games.
I love it. 10 second boot times and plenty of storage for around 100 games.
M.2 drives are all the rage right now, with Samsung leading the way with the 950 PRO rated at 2.5 GBps.
Segate announced a new PCI-E drive with an incredible 10 GBps read speed and 6.7 write that will be available for purchase mid summer this year.
Mind blowing the rate the technology is evolving these days
Segate announced a new PCI-E drive with an incredible 10 GBps read speed and 6.7 write that will be available for purchase mid summer this year.
Mind blowing the rate the technology is evolving these days
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I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
Make sure to buy something to cool ssd and harddrive
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
This sounds like more of a filesystem issue with SSDs vs. an actual SSD issue? How differently do MacOS X, Windows and Linux handle SSDs?
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
This sounds like more of a filesystem issue with SSDs vs. an actual SSD issue? How differently do MacOS X, Windows and Linux handle SSDs?
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
That's interesting insight.
If I built a new desktop, I'd probably put the OS on a smaller SSD, but the files and some programs that don't need highest performance, would go on a HDD.
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
That's interesting insight.
If I built a new desktop, I'd probably put the OS on a smaller SSD, but the files and some programs that don't need highest performance, would go on a HDD.
This is how I'm extending the life of my older Win7 desktop.
I've installed a new 512gb SSD. It basically has the OS and applications.
My data is still on the 3tb of spinning storage in the machine.
Installed Win7, updated that to Win10. Still have Win7 on the spinning storage. And about a dozen VMs to run if I want or need another OS such as Solaris or Linux.
The VMs are on the spinning storage as well. But my applications, at least for Win10, are on the SSD.
I had to do some drive mapping tricks so my home folders look to be in the same places for both OS instances, but all in all, pretty easy. Also needed some ACL tricks so users in both OS instances could access their personal files.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
That's interesting insight.
If I built a new desktop, I'd probably put the OS on a smaller SSD, but the files and some programs that don't need highest performance, would go on a HDD.
I've installed a new 512gb SSD. It basically has the OS and applications.
My data is still on the 3tb of spinning storage in the machine.
Installed Win7, updated that to Win10. Still have Win7 on the spinning storage. And about a dozen VMs to run if I want or need another OS such as Solaris or Linux.
The VMs are on the spinning storage as well. But my applications, at least for Win10, are on the SSD.
I had to do some drive mapping tricks so my home folders look to be in the same places for both OS instances, but all in all, pretty easy. Also needed some ACL tricks so users in both OS instances could access their personal files.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
That's interesting insight.
If I built a new desktop, I'd probably put the OS on a smaller SSD, but the files and some programs that don't need highest performance, would go on a HDD.
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've yet to see this happen. It's not impossible, but modern file systems have resiliency to protect against this, plus the SSD's memory controller itself uses buffers/caches and other tricks to mitigate the risk.
The worst case is that it corrupts the file you're currently writing, in which case you'd just lose that specific file and restore from a backup or whatever. Good computing habits dictate that you use backups.
I've had assorted random crashes on my desktop (SSD inside) and it has never necessitated a reinstall; sometimes CHKDSK runs and fixes a few things. I think you're being very alarmist.
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've yet to see this happen. It's not impossible, but modern file systems have resiliency to protect against this, plus the SSD's memory controller itself uses buffers/caches and other tricks to mitigate the risk.
The worst case is that it corrupts the file you're currently writing, in which case you'd just lose that specific file and restore from a backup or whatever. Good computing habits dictate that you use backups.
I've had assorted random crashes on my desktop (SSD inside) and it has never necessitated a reinstall; sometimes CHKDSK runs and fixes a few things. I think you're being very alarmist.
Originally Posted By: mazdamonky
SSD operating system/program drive with a couple of games is the awesomeness. Running 120gb Corsair SSD, 1TB 7200 rpm seagate HDD for games, and 2TB 5900 RPM Western Digital for movies, pictures, music, etc.
I love it. 10 second boot times and plenty of storage for around 100 games.
Yup, going to install Windows 10 and World of Tanks (clone) and Warframe onto the ssd, and use the 1tb for files and other games.
SSD operating system/program drive with a couple of games is the awesomeness. Running 120gb Corsair SSD, 1TB 7200 rpm seagate HDD for games, and 2TB 5900 RPM Western Digital for movies, pictures, music, etc.
I love it. 10 second boot times and plenty of storage for around 100 games.
Yup, going to install Windows 10 and World of Tanks (clone) and Warframe onto the ssd, and use the 1tb for files and other games.
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've never seen this happen, and I fix computers for a defense contractor for a living. It's not worth worrying about.
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've never seen this happen, and I fix computers for a defense contractor for a living. It's not worth worrying about.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've never seen this happen, and I fix computers for a defense contractor for a living. It's not worth worrying about.
Yeah, I've never seen it happen either
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've never seen this happen, and I fix computers for a defense contractor for a living. It's not worth worrying about.
Yeah, I've never seen it happen either
I also agree there is low risk on the latest SSD's. the controllers are much smarter than just a few years ago.
The problems I've seen more often is a soft power supply. users will have 2 hot video cards and multiple disks and some cooling fans. With insufficient power supply capacity the voltages will dip causing random logic problems in different areas in memory, disks or video with corruption or lockups.
The problems I've seen more often is a soft power supply. users will have 2 hot video cards and multiple disks and some cooling fans. With insufficient power supply capacity the voltages will dip causing random logic problems in different areas in memory, disks or video with corruption or lockups.
On my latest desktop build just went all in with a Samsung Pro 1GB SSD, 32 GB ram, GTX 980 Ti, 4790 i7 CPU.
The thing is dang fast.
Apps open in a blink. The weak link is the internet at 150/10.
Been using SSDs for years, bought my first one in 2011. No issues yet.
The thing is dang fast.
Apps open in a blink. The weak link is the internet at 150/10.
Been using SSDs for years, bought my first one in 2011. No issues yet.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've never seen this happen, and I fix computers for a defense contractor for a living. It's not worth worrying about.
Yeah, I've never seen it happen either
I've seen it once. You can't do a repair reinstall on W7. It wasn't pretty.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-ssd-power-faults-scramble-your-data/
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've never seen this happen, and I fix computers for a defense contractor for a living. It's not worth worrying about.
Yeah, I've never seen it happen either
I've seen it once. You can't do a repair reinstall on W7. It wasn't pretty.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-ssd-power-faults-scramble-your-data/
I'd be surprised if defense contractors were using SSD since it's difficult to securely erase an SSD. This is purely an SSD issue, not a HD issue.
It has to do with the way flash is written. Flash is erased in blocks, but can only be written to once. If you want to change one bit of data in a page, you need to copy that page into a cache, change that bit of data, then move the entire contents of that page into a new page. See "Write Amplification" for these kinds of details. Because of Write Amplification, a lot of these SSDs try to keep a journal of changes to be made later, and minimize writes to minimize wear on the SSD (flash has a finite write endurance). When power is lost, it's a race to write all the data in time.
By contrast, a hard drive can simply overwrite the data.
It has to do with the way flash is written. Flash is erased in blocks, but can only be written to once. If you want to change one bit of data in a page, you need to copy that page into a cache, change that bit of data, then move the entire contents of that page into a new page. See "Write Amplification" for these kinds of details. Because of Write Amplification, a lot of these SSDs try to keep a journal of changes to be made later, and minimize writes to minimize wear on the SSD (flash has a finite write endurance). When power is lost, it's a race to write all the data in time.
By contrast, a hard drive can simply overwrite the data.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Pretty old article (2013) but shows that even the less expensive spinning disk drive had a similar mode of failure to a number of the SSD's tested under those conditions.
I believe there have been some rather significant improvements in the firmware and controllers since then as well.
Data loss or corruption is a risk with any media under the right (or wrong) conditions, I think we can all agree on that. The mode of data loss/corruption with an SSD is admittedly somewhat unique to that technology, but as with all of these types of obstacles, they are actively being improved upon and steps taken to minimize the possibility of these types of events through improved software and hardware.
I believe there have been some rather significant improvements in the firmware and controllers since then as well.
Data loss or corruption is a risk with any media under the right (or wrong) conditions, I think we can all agree on that. The mode of data loss/corruption with an SSD is admittedly somewhat unique to that technology, but as with all of these types of obstacles, they are actively being improved upon and steps taken to minimize the possibility of these types of events through improved software and hardware.
Originally Posted By: Andy636
M.2 drives are all the rage right now, with Samsung leading the way with the 950 PRO rated at 2.5 GBps.
Segate announced a new PCI-E drive with an incredible 10 GBps read speed and 6.7 write that will be available for purchase mid summer this year.
Mind blowing the rate the technology is evolving these days
I remember my first SSD+HDD setup, an HP laptop with two! 2.5" HDD bays with an OCZ 32GB SSD + 500GB 5400RPM HDD. SSD's were pricey and you had to have deep pockets if you want 120GB+ SSD's.
Sold the HP back then and now have a used 2010 Macbook and threw on a 480GB Sandisk SSD that I got for $100.
M.2 drives are all the rage right now, with Samsung leading the way with the 950 PRO rated at 2.5 GBps.
Segate announced a new PCI-E drive with an incredible 10 GBps read speed and 6.7 write that will be available for purchase mid summer this year.
Mind blowing the rate the technology is evolving these days
I remember my first SSD+HDD setup, an HP laptop with two! 2.5" HDD bays with an OCZ 32GB SSD + 500GB 5400RPM HDD. SSD's were pricey and you had to have deep pockets if you want 120GB+ SSD's.
Sold the HP back then and now have a used 2010 Macbook and threw on a 480GB Sandisk SSD that I got for $100.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
That's interesting insight.
If I built a new desktop, I'd probably put the OS on a smaller SSD, but the files and some programs that don't need highest performance, would go on a HDD.
it's "interesting" in that it's total B-S
SSDs have a buffer but so do spin drives. Spin drives actually have a much larger buffer than SSDs because they require one. Because they're slow.
I've seen far more corruption on spin drives losing power than I ever have on an SSD.
I'd also be very interested to know why a reinstall would be required. System files are never changed unless updates are being done.
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
That's interesting insight.
If I built a new desktop, I'd probably put the OS on a smaller SSD, but the files and some programs that don't need highest performance, would go on a HDD.
it's "interesting" in that it's total B-S
SSDs have a buffer but so do spin drives. Spin drives actually have a much larger buffer than SSDs because they require one. Because they're slow.
I've seen far more corruption on spin drives losing power than I ever have on an SSD.
I'd also be very interested to know why a reinstall would be required. System files are never changed unless updates are being done.
Originally Posted By: Skid
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've never seen this happen, and I fix computers for a defense contractor for a living. It's not worth worrying about.
Yeah, I've never seen it happen either
I've seen it once. You can't do a repair reinstall on W7. It wasn't pretty.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-ssd-power-faults-scramble-your-data/
That article is 3 years old. A lot has changed and that is just one person's opinion -- I've never heard anyone else say it's a problem.
Don't you think that it would be big news if SSDs, the new standard in PC storage, were that unreliable?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Skid
I'm a big fan of SSD in laptops but not in desktops. If you suddenly lose power (like a blackout), a laptop can keep chugging, but the desktop can see corruption in the SSD/HD unless you have a UPS. With a HD, no biggie, just a few files, but with an SSD, you could have hundreds of files corrupted. No fun to fix. Basically, reinstall time. Thus, I won't run an SSD in a desktop unless it also has a beefy UPS.
I've never seen this happen, and I fix computers for a defense contractor for a living. It's not worth worrying about.
Yeah, I've never seen it happen either
I've seen it once. You can't do a repair reinstall on W7. It wasn't pretty.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-ssd-power-faults-scramble-your-data/
That article is 3 years old. A lot has changed and that is just one person's opinion -- I've never heard anyone else say it's a problem.
Don't you think that it would be big news if SSDs, the new standard in PC storage, were that unreliable?
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