New models of Camry have bad trany or throttle design

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by smc733

Time marches forward. I just exchanged my 2016 Sonata, which was showing signs of engine issues, for a 2017 Camry. Test drove a 17 and 18, liked the 18 but I wanted a 10-year car, plus the older one felt a bit more comfortable, sits up higher, and doesn't look as... different as the new one. Having said that, they can't stick in 6-speed land forever, they have to remain competitive. Scotty Kilmer might be a well respected mechanic, but he's no engineer. I bet Toyota sticks with this 8 speed for a decade or so until everyone begins full-electric transition, I'm sure most of the issues will be worked out in the next revision.

Again car mfrs are losing their commonsense and logic if they believe they need to add more complex transmissions to be "competitive", people that buy Toyota want bulletproof reliability that is probably the most desired characteristic when a consumer buys that brand. Full electric transition? Not in the USA for many decades perhaps more than 70 years! Some car mfrs that are still in touch with reality admit that there just isn't a market for EVs, people do NOT want them, only a tiny dedicated market is interested. Unless consumers are FORCED by government they will refuse to buy them anytime soon.

 

[Rolla07]

Id trade my 6 spd for an 8 spd in my venza if it was possible for extra mpgs lol..

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by AC1DD

Originally Posted by smc733

Time marches forward. I just exchanged my 2016 Sonata, which was showing signs of engine issues, for a 2017 Camry. Test drove a 17 and 18, liked the 18 but I wanted a 10-year car, plus the older one felt a bit more comfortable, sits up higher, and doesn't look as... different as the new one. Having said that, they can't stick in 6-speed land forever, they have to remain competitive. Scotty Kilmer might be a well respected mechanic, but he's no engineer. I bet Toyota sticks with this 8 speed for a decade or so until everyone begins full-electric transition, I'm sure most of the issues will be worked out in the next revision.

Again car mfrs are losing their commonsense and logic if they believe they need to add more complex transmissions to be "competitive", people that buy Toyota want bulletproof reliability that is probably the most desired characteristic when a consumer buys that brand. Full electric transition? Not in the USA for many decades perhaps more than 70 years! Some car mfrs that are still in touch with reality admit that there just isn't a market for EVs, people do NOT want them, only a tiny dedicated market is interested. Unless consumers are FORCED by government they will refuse to buy them anytime soon.

To the AVERAGE person, more=better. I'm sure when they came out with 3 or 4 speed auto's people were saying "but the 2 speed power glide is great! Why do we need more!?" Yeah, Toyota fumbled the ball a bit with their 8 speeds. They'll have it fixed and in 15 years when they go 10 speed or whatever we will be back here complaining all over again.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by Rolla07

Id trade my 6 spd for an 8 spd in my venza if it was possible for extra mpgs lol..

You'd actually trade your bulletproof 6 speed AT for a problematic 8 speed for just a measly one or two MPG? Well I doubt you're the typical Toyota customer because hardly any bought the Venza.

 

[JimPghPA]

Originally Posted by Driz

I have 18 SXE 2.5 . About a year now. I can live with the occasional jerk shift. I do however think ours was updated via flash when it was traded at 5000 miles. It's not that bad honestly. We get one of those hop shifts about monthly, thats about it. Sort of like the cvt hesitation thing. For me it likes to do it under just certain gentle acceleration and I sort of back off . My daughter who rarely drives it says it drives her nuts but they got a 19 the same model and I don't hear the [censored]. It could just be much of it is the way the car learns your driving style. It does have some sort of learning function as to driving style which accounts for some of it I'm sure. What you are missing is dealing with cvt s most of ...my old favorite Honda has mostly gone to. No turbo either whitch Honda has fallen for along with the rather smallish 1.5 . the daughter and hubby wanted a new car and we looked at a few SI, Sport and Civics and came up lame. SI needed Hi test and like accord has boosted 1.5. Sport just wasn't impressive with it's 2. O standard but at least you could get it. they finally settled on what we have 2.5 Camray SXE identical to ours but 19 model. They aren't griping either. It's just something to be aware of that bang shift and or slip shift. It happens on occasion only for us. If you are OCB and demand perfection you won't like it surely but other than that it's a solid performer in realistic terms with that little quirk. Engine is the same solid 2.5 mpfi as prior models, one exception . It's primarily a DI with the MPFI kicking in and out to keep buildup off the valves. Delivers a solid 32 and change mixed honest readout. FYI Range isn't increased really as it's a smaller gas tank, like 12 gallon +-. I've seen guys bragging 40 MPG, well maybe at 50MPH surely mostly downhill drafting but not realistic for a heavy car, maybe 35 highway real life but what do you want from a sedan , Gretta🧟. My advice is to take one out and feel it out. Ou can find low mile trade ins like mine kicking around. Ours was in Fla so who knows maybe somebody died or it may have been the tranny and they hated it, hard to say. Sometime you get lucky but they still aren't cheap...¬. I'm not selling mine anytime soon though. Here's the Camray forums. Take a look around in here, happy hunting. https://www.toyotanation.com/forums/camry-8th-generation-2018.802/

I went to the Toyota nation forum and did a search for camry transmission and there are quite a few post about people having problems. Some complain about it being jerky, and other complain about early failure requiring the transmission to be replaced. When transmissions have to be replaced early and they just replace them with the same bad design, what kind of life expectancy can you expect when it is out of warranty?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by AC1DD

One thing that stands out is that the exchanged a bulletproof 6 speed auto for a questionable 8 speed for an extra MPG or two...bad decision. Very bad. Engine problems ...even Scotty Kilmer has said that Toyota is becoming just as problematic as the average car now...not that this is terrible but it hurts the very reason why Toyota is so well respected..bulletproof reliability.

When I was buying used Sienna AWD, I specifically wanted older, 2015 6speed with 2GR-FE. I personally think this Atkinson cycle V6 became even less responsive from previous V6 in lower range, which I am not sure it was possible. But, anything for 1-2mpg.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by edyvw

Originally Posted by JHZR2

I had a new camry as a rental car recently. Drove it around 100 miles. It returned around 40 MPG on the highway, which was great. The legroom in the front was incredible too - Im pretty tall, and with the seat back, I could extend my legs fully. Its probably a car you could camp in if you reclined the seat all the way back. But its like a boat - yes the suspension is firmer than older ones, but its essentially a boat. Far different feel, including for things like u-turns, compared to my Accord. But what stuck out to me was the non-responsive mode it would go into, that had to essentially get "waken up". Its probably how it returns great MPGs, but it is in some sort of mode where the throttle response is nearly non-existant, and it takes a few seconds to make much change. Im used to a lag before getting pep from driving turbo cars and hybrids. This is none of that - just a lethargic period of time before it gets up and goes. Even then, floored, it feels slow compared to modern cars. Maybe the gears are overly optimized for economy? I noticed also that (thankfully) it has none of that Toytota first gear jump, that makes the throttle too jumpy or aggressive from a stop. Ill pass on the camry until they get back to a more normal design (the attempt to appeal to a younger group by trying to appear "sporty" is just plain stupid for this vehicle). With a little tuning the one I had would be pretty good, but the throttle response did stand out to me...

One cannot have it both ways. Toyota is doing everything possible to keep engines simple in the US, that is how they gained reputation. However, in order to return competitive MPG they have to go to great lengths. Recently I think Motor Trend retuned on BMW 330i 42mpg and they did not spare the car. So, how you keep up with other manufacturers but also keep it simple? Throttle that does not respond, weird programming of Aisin 8speed etc. etc. That Aisin 8 speed is capable to be programmed much better. VW has it, BMW has it in their transverse applications etc. The question is: how long they will be able to keep pushing this before will have to exert to turbo engines in Camry?

That's a fine and fair assessment. Turbos are fun, and Ive had great luck with them. But all the complexity does come back to bite. Toyota knows how to do a turbo car - look at the 1990s Supra. What a great car - Toyota's heyday. The issue is that everyone wants a vanilla sedan to outperform a sports car of 15 years ago. And these modern cars do so! When folks realize that 7 or 8 or 9 seconds to 60 is just fine and very safe, then the power can plateau and economy can really start to go up.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by JHZR2

That's a fine and fair assessment. Turbos are fun, and Ive had great luck with them. But all the complexity does come back to bite. Toyota knows how to do a turbo car - look at the 1990s Supra. What a great car - Toyota's heyday. The issue is that everyone wants a vanilla sedan to outperform a sports car of 15 years ago. And these modern cars do so! When folks realize that 7 or 8 or 9 seconds to 60 is just fine and very safe, then the power can plateau and economy can really start to go up.

Turbo will bring issues. Supra is outlier and latest development are indication that know-how is gone. In Europe they are there as an average, and had quite a bit of issues, especially in diesel department. I think they will be able to keep going like this for some time, as long as others are not taking chunk of their sale. So far they proved they can sell their product as it is. However, you are right, everyone now wants 6 seconds car. When you look at Youtube channels everything revolves around 0-60. Not sure what is teh point as I do not see many people drag racing in the morning when I am dropping kid to daycare.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

I test drove an 4 cylinder 2018 Camry when they first came out. I hated the way it shifted especially in a parking lot. Felt like it shifted twice before I got off the dealers lot, and I was creeping slow. I still liked the car, tried to negotiate just for the heck of it, and they wouldn't come down as low as I wanted. It was my first test drive anyway, so I kept shopping and ended up in a Mazda 6. And I've driven a new Sienna when mine was in the shop for a recall. I have a 2011 v6 2grfe and whatever trans comes with it (FWD). The new van felt a lot heavier in every way imaginable, and felt like it just didn't want to coast. The 4 cylinder Camry really didn't look simple at all under the hood either, just FYI. Coming from a mechanic who was in search of a relatively low tech 4 cylinder to commute in.

 

[PimTac]

That's the way it is with a modern automatic. They upshift very early. My Mazda will be in third gear before I reach the other side of a street when starting out from a stop. It's all in the programming how it's done. In the case of Mazda the torque converter locks up very early.

 

[02SE]

I'm currently driving a new 4 cyl SE model as a rental. Seems like a decent family sedan to me. The transmission shifts crisply without any noticably weird behavior. It has acceptable power, and gets good fuel economy. I'm averaging just about 40 mpg in mixed driving. The structure feels solid. The handling, suspension, and braking feel fine. I'd have no problem recommending one to someone looking for a midsize sedan.

 

[Driz]

I forgot to mention the home brew cure for the infamous Camray transmission. Keep it in SPORT MODE. Yea it works pretty darn well too unless your one of those who has to find fault. Remember well this car is at its worst the first ? Miles hours until you get to know each other. That learning sequence The tranny does will take some time. We sure won't be trading ours anytime soon.

 

[Railrust]

I've owned an 8 speed with Lexus, I'm assuming it's a totally different u it than the Camry, because THAT transmission was a marvel. Absolutely loved that thing...able to get impressive fuel economy in a large car. Some did complain about it...hunting, seemed confused, but I really liked it. Super durable too. Aisin or something. The thing about the new Camry, it looks fast...to hear it's slow and lags is disappointing. I understand the need for great fuel economy, I like that, but you have to give the customer a little something for enjoyment (especially when you design the car to look cutting edge/fast/exciting). The new RAV4 is getting poor reviews too for hesitations/poor shifts. And they redesigned that thing to look more aggressive, bigger. Love the way these new Toyota's look, it's just they seemed to have forgotten the performance aspect of it.

 

[PWMDMD]

I drive a 2019 Lexus RX350 with the same 8-speed. I had the latest TSB update from last summer applied already. In my opinion the AT leaves a lot to be desired. It drives reasonably well under most light throttle situations - gear changes are quick and smooth. However, give it anything past â…“ throttle and the thing becomes a complete mess. You get a very abrupt multi-gear downshift - the kind of downshift you should only get if you buried the gas pedal to the floor. In response you let off the pedal and then you get a multi-gear upshift so that you are exactly where you started. The vehicle is impossible to drive with moderate acceleration and only seems to want light or full throttle acceleration. On top of that even when you truly want a multi-gear downshift like when you're merging onto the highway and you want maximum acceleration these always end in the AT banging into that lowest gear - it is not smooth. I contrast this to my 2018 Honda Pilot with the ZF 9-speed which besides the 1-2 shift jerkiness is light years ahead of Aisin in terms of programming and drivability - very easy to get a predictable 1-gear or 2-gear or maximum number of gears downshift with the ZF.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted by Railrust

I've owned an 8 speed with Lexus, I'm assuming it's a totally different u it than the Camry, because THAT transmission was a marvel. Absolutely loved that thing...able to get impressive fuel economy in a large car. Some did complain about it...hunting, seemed confused, but I really liked it. Super durable too. Aisin or something. The thing about the new Camry, it looks fast...to hear it's slow and lags is disappointing. I understand the need for great fuel economy, I like that, but you have to give the customer a little something for enjoyment (especially when you design the car to look cutting edge/fast/exciting). The new RAV4 is getting poor reviews too for hesitations/poor shifts. And they redesigned that thing to look more aggressive, bigger. Love the way these new Toyota's look, it's just they seemed to have forgotten the performance aspect of it.

There is a TSB for the RAV4 transmission issues. Not sure if it also applies to the Camry, which has a basically identical drivetrain.

 

[dogememe]

Had a new RAV4 as a rental car last week. Only for a few hours but what an awful vehicle. Everything felt and looked super cheap from the interior to the tailgate. In Eco mode it was like driving a potato. In Sport it was tolerable.