New Mobil 1 5w30 ESP Formulation?

[chris719]

How do we know an oil with PAO or Moly for instance "exceeds" the approvals? How do we know what criteria is used to quantify "exceeds?"

Same goes for Pennzoil products. They maintained approvals yet people here jumped off the bandwagon because of the loss of Moly; Now Valvoline is the new Moly darling. All the while, the same approvals are being met.

We don't, because there is zero transparency and the only tests done by the general public are worthless (PF, 540Rat, etc.). In some ways, the entire forum is an exercise in speculation. Especially when we come to oils like boutique and race oils that are not even covered by approvals. I get that testing in an actual engine and tearing it down is expensive, but it would be nice if the major players disclosed actual data. If we had that, there would be no need to speculate based on an incomplete picture.

The follow-up question could be, why does anyone care if the oils meet the standards? I am sure for the most part it doesn't matter, but there are situations like track use or slightly flawed engines where perhaps it could.

 

[buster]

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100% renewable, plant-derived, synthetic base oil with category-leading stability and performance. Drop-in ready to meet the toughest challenges.

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Havoline Pro RS 5w30 and 0w20 Dexos1 GEN2 are using 25% NOVVI estolide base oils with a .9% SA content add pack with rest of base oils being GRP III+.

 

[Bjornviken]

We don't, because there is zero transparency and the only tests done by the general public are worthless (PF, 540Rat, etc.). In some ways, the entire forum is an exercise in speculation. Especially when we come to oils like boutique and race oils that are not even covered by approvals. I get that testing in an actual engine and tearing it down is expensive, but it would be nice if the major players disclosed actual data. If we had that, there would be no need to speculate based on an incomplete picture.

The follow-up question could be, why does anyone care if the oils meet the standards? I am sure for the most part it doesn't matter, but there are situations like track use or slightly flawed engines where perhaps it could.

To be sure if the product meets the standards that the machine must have. Today's industries rely on standards. There are many different standards in different areas.

 

[4WD]

To be sure if the product meets the standards that the machine must have. Today's industries rely on standards. There are many different standards in different areas.

See post #16

 

[chris719]

To be sure if the product meets the standards that the machine must have. Today's industries rely on standards. There are many different standards in different areas.

Sorry I completely mistyped in that reply. I meant to say why do we care if they exceed the standard, not meet. It’s definitely important to know we can trust something meets a minimum standard.

 

[edyvw]

Sorry I completely mistyped in that reply. I meant to say why do we care if they exceed the standard, not meet. It’s definitely important to know we can trust something meets a minimum standard.

Because then what would we talk about here?

 

[930.engineering]

You're not wrong. It has to do with advances in additive technology. Blending with PAO is a PITA and only the thinnest high-NOACK PAOs offer those stupid-low pour points. It is beyond me why so many hunt for oils with PAO content. I suspect it has something to do with "getting your money's worth" rather than getting a properly formulated oil. For cold climate it is understandable, however, other than that, there isn't a single good reason to use PAO.

"It is beyond me" why so many hate PAO.

Blending with PAO ist a PITA.....

Explain please. I bet you don't even understand significance of the aniline point.

Thanks.

 

[svenson]

In his defense the suspicion over the oxidation requirement originated from @edyvw

a member from another bmw forum used to put mobil 1 esp 5-30 . he did UOA at 10.000 km at blackstone....comments were that at 10.000km oils were ready for change..so it could be true what edy suspected.

this member changed to FUCHS. lol ,i read a lot of funny jokes here about that barely known brand . anyway, he did UOA at same km every year since then in various cars and at comments always said that he can go for 3-4.000 km more for the change.

 

[svenson]

since motul x-clean+ 5-30 and mobil 1 esp api SP 5-30 probably gonna have the same price in europe, can we compare these 2? base stocks, additives ,final product....

 

[edyvw]

a member from another bmw forum used to put mobil 1 esp 5-30 . he did UOA at 10.000 km at blackstone....comments were that at 10.000km oils were ready for change..so it could be true what edy suspected.

this member changed to FUCHS. lol ,i read a lot of funny jokes here about that barely known brand . anyway, he did UOA at same km every year since then in various cars and at comments always said that he can go for 3-4.000 km more for the change.

Fuchs is the largest industrial lubricant blender and supplier in Germany. They own Pentosin, Nulon etc.

 

[svenson]

i am aware of this edy , their marketing sucks. they are more interested in industrial oils that's why many people don't know this company as an car oil supplier.
i jumped into the thread thought you were answering about motul and mobil.

 

[edyvw]

i am aware of this edy , their marketing sucks. they are more interested in industrial oils that's why many people don't know this company as an car oil supplier.
i jumped into the thread thought you were answering about motul and mobil.

I mean, their oils are always a safe bet. But, yeah, marketing is an afterthought.

 

[buster]

So far all the SP/Triple grades show a 11 for oxidation - EP, ESP and 0w40 SP.

 

[buster]

So this oil has been discussed quite a bit on the Russian Oil Club. People are losing their minds due to the latest formulation.

Of interest to me was this old comment found here:

"It is noteworthy to mention that the recently introduced ESP 5W-30 variant features a unique additive formulation and does not utilize molybdenum compounds. This novel ingredient, which may have been previously recognized but remains shrouded in uncertainty, could represent a state-of-the-art advancement in tribology - TRIS(BRANCHED-ALKYL) BORATE or orthoboric acid tri(C=3-12)alkyl ester (improved polyborate ester compositions for use in lubricating oils to inhibit wear and oxidation)"

 

[svenson]

can you transfer some discussions-opinions from there about this oil?

 

[Petr]

The majority of the discussions there are around two topics:
1) Is it a fake product or a genuine product? (they have a long history of counterfeit products of big brands Mobil, Castrol, Shell on their market so this is a real issue there), some fakes have been captured in the EU as well, the bottling of fakes found in the EU is usually somewhere in Eastern Europe.
The fact that Mobil1 obviously uses low-quality 4L/5L containers does not help to recognize fake from the original. While the 1-liter containers look as expected, I would not be surprised if some of the counterfeits could have better quality 5l jugs than the original.
Anyway, they mainly conclude this is a genuine product.

2) Is it better or worse than the old version? Actually, nobody knows. They only learned that at temperatures below -23C the new oil gets cloudy while the old one did not. And the new one smells differently than the old one.

 

[buster]

^ exactly. We just don't know.