New member. Oil questions on Saab turbo

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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bourne
Seek out oils that meet Honda HT-06 Spec. That is the only oil spec from Honda and its for their turbo engine in the RDX.
M1 5w30 is a great option. So is Synpower with its low NOACK scores. PP 5w30 and QSUD 5w30 are also good options as they both meet HT-06 spec.

+1

Having read some of the SAAB experiences regarding sludge I think sticking with a premium synthetic like the M1 5W-30 that your using or PP 5W-30 and a short OCI is the best approach.
You certainly don't need to use anything heavier for the way your car is operated since you won't be seeing excessively high oil temp's.
 
All I would offer to that is people have seen oil pressure way below Saab specs when using thin 30 weights. Many of the early pumps were supposedly out of spec. How critical that was is a good question. I sought out folks who'd had engine damage conclusively linked to shoddy pumps and never found much. See why I drive Hondas now, lol.
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
Changing the oil and filter every 3K miles is a waste of money and might even be counter productive, as oil filter works far better when dirty than clean.
If you are using a good quality full synthetic oil then 5K would be perfectly OK.
Synthetic blends or part synthetic is one category of oil worth avoiding, as all it is just dinosaur oil plus some extra additives. In general terms you should either use a good quality dino and do shorter OCI's or use a full synthetic and stick to the manufacturers recommended OCI, unless your car is subject to severe service considerations, like lots of time at idle or dusty off road driving etc.


Dino! In a Saab turbo!

Full synthetic only and keep you OCI nice and short. 3k may be a bit over the top.but the Saab specialists in the UK would advise no.more than 5/6k.

As mentioned get the sump off and clean the strainer.

I would peraonally use Mobil 1 0w40 as I can get it for a decent price in local Costco.

Engine also suffers with camchain issues if oil.changes are neglected or cheap oil is used.

Saab have changed their oil.change interval.on these engines after so many went bang. They originally specced them.for 10/12 k miles, can't remember off top of my head.

Saabscene is a good place for info. I got lots of helpful info when I had a '98 2.0T 95 a few years ago. Bought it cheap, drove it on holiday, put 2k miles on it and sold it for a nice profit.
 
Caterham, whilst I defer to your greater knowledge most of the time. In this specific case a 0w40 is better. These engines are hard on oil due to exhaust and turbo placement.

Basically cooking it in the sump.

Get sump off and clean the strainer.

Above all stick to a good oil.

Full synthetic only in this engine.
 
Just to comment about the segment from.the owners manual posted up by I think bourne.

This is one case where the manufacturer got it really rather wrong.

Saab had to replace lots of these engines due to oil starvation issues causing camchain and turbo problems.

The engine could easily turn most of the oil in the sump into a thick vaseline type sludge. Not just bits here and there. Some engines are known sludgers. This is worse than most.

Have seen pictures of this thick gloop.

Being known as a sludger doesn't do justice to this engine.
 
Here was my pickup screen

DSCN5160.jpg



and bottom end



DSCN5168.jpg


This was a car I bought off lease w/ just 55k miles on it. It looked like the car had been to the dealer for every OCI based on shop records when I ran the VIN.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
All I would offer to that is people have seen oil pressure way below Saab specs when using thin 30 weights. Many of the early pumps were supposedly out of spec. How critical that was is a good question. I sought out folks who'd had engine damage conclusively linked to shoddy pumps and never found much. See why I drive Hondas now, lol.

Brian if that is the case of course I would agree especially with regard to the possibility of "shoddy [oil] pumps".
If the OP was planning on keeping the car for a while I'd suggest installing an oil pressure gauge and then there will be no guessing as to what oil viscosity to use.
If the oil pump is functioning normally, with only a 5 mile commute he could probabily run a 0W-20!
 
True and I definitely see your point. The quicker that oil can circulate the quicker it can warm up and boil off whatever.

And as a bit of comfort for the OP, despite the looks of my engine at 55k miles, I traded her in somewhere north of 150k miles (can't remember now) and the engine was in fine shape. The tranny was starting to slip a bit...but that's a different story that is partially due to operator error!

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
All I would offer to that is people have seen oil pressure way below Saab specs when using thin 30 weights. Many of the early pumps were supposedly out of spec. How critical that was is a good question. I sought out folks who'd had engine damage conclusively linked to shoddy pumps and never found much. See why I drive Hondas now, lol.

Brian if that is the case of course I would agree especially with regard to the possibility of "shoddy [oil] pumps".
If the OP was planning on keeping the car for a while I'd suggest installing an oil pressure gauge and then there will be no guessing as to what oil viscosity to use.
If the oil pump is functioning normally, with only a 5 mile commute he could probabily run a 0W-20!
 
When we got our first SAAB 9-5, we were told by the dealer to use nothing but Mobil 1 0W-40, and no more than 5K OCI. I have stuck with that now for 11 years. Our current car (which will be our last SAAB, what with one thing and another) has 130K and no issues. This oil is supposed to be especially recommended for turbos.
 
Originally Posted By: bornfromjets03
I'm new to this forum and was brought here by an oil question. Here are the basics:

1. 2003 Saab 9-5 4 cylinder turbo
2. Syn blend or full syn 5w-30. (0w-40 is recommended for towing and high strain applications in parts of the world). API SM. 5-7k recommended intervals. (I change every 3k regardless of need)
3. Kansas, USA
4. Mixed highway and city. Definitely "spirited" driving style
5. Daily drive is usually short. 5 miles or less in suburban conditions
6. A few small oil leaks.. but nothing big enough to be noticeable.

The dealer put in Valvoline syn blend from new till 75k when I blew a turbo, since then I've had nothing but Mobil1 full syn 5w-30.

I've been told that Motul ESTER based oils leave Mobil and AMSoil in the dust... true?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

As a long time SAAB owner I must tell you that SAAB jets have VOLVO engines.
smile.gif
 
OK. I was going to start a new thread, but I think that my question fits pretty well here.

I have an '05 Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon that I purchased almost a year ago. It had 125k miles on it at the time, and I couldn't get any detailed maintenance history (Was it run only on synthetic oil? What were the typical OCIs?)

Since I bought it, I have run M1 0w40, Amsoil 0w30, and I'm now running Motul 300v 0w40.

Yes, I know that M1 is a great oil and that the Motul is probably overkill. Please don't respond just to tell me this.

My main question is this: not knowing the oil history of this car and knowing that Saabs can be sludgers (though my model year should be ok), should I run an oil with a high level of detergents?

I opted for the Motul with my latest oil change because I just wanted an extremely high quality ester-based oil (also considered Redline). However, being that it's mainly a racing oil, the 300v doesn't have the same detergent levels as street-use oils. Is this OK? Since I have a high-mileage vehicle, I've been thinking that I should run something like Pennzoil Ultra Euro 0w40, which cleans the engine very well.

Right now, I'm thinking that I could run PU for the next few changes to clean out the 125k+ miles of gunk and then switch back to the Motul. It seems to me that if you have a really high quality oil like Motul, as long as you don't go too long with your OCI, you shouldn't need much detergent. What do people think?
 
Anyone, anyone...Bueller, Bueller...

I'm probably going to do a UOA at the next change to see what things look like and then do the PU for a little while. There has to be some build up with all these miles. I'm almost inclined to get a flexible camera to look up into the engine and see for myself.
 
Originally Posted By: wally21
OK. I was going to start a new thread, but I think that my question fits pretty well here.

I have an '05 Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon that I purchased almost a year ago. It had 125k miles on it at the time, and I couldn't get any detailed maintenance history (Was it run only on synthetic oil? What were the typical OCIs?)

Since I bought it, I have run M1 0w40, Amsoil 0w30, and I'm now running Motul 300v 0w40.

Yes, I know that M1 is a great oil and that the Motul is probably overkill. Please don't respond just to tell me this.

My main question is this: not knowing the oil history of this car and knowing that Saabs can be sludgers (though my model year should be ok), should I run an oil with a high level of detergents?

I opted for the Motul with my latest oil change because I just wanted an extremely high quality ester-based oil (also considered Redline). However, being that it's mainly a racing oil, the 300v doesn't have the same detergent levels as street-use oils. Is this OK? Since I have a high-mileage vehicle, I've been thinking that I should run something like Pennzoil Ultra Euro 0w40, which cleans the engine very well.

Right now, I'm thinking that I could run PU for the next few changes to clean out the 125k+ miles of gunk and then switch back to the Motul. It seems to me that if you have a really high quality oil like Motul, as long as you don't go too long with your OCI, you shouldn't need much detergent. What do people think?


If the engine you have is a potential sludger or you want to do long OCI's, the detergent and dispersants in the add pack are important. All the major brand full synthetics or HM oils will help clean the engine, but I would look for a Calcium content of a least 2500 ppm if you have a VOA available and change it before the TBN is below one third of the VOA figure (About 3 minimum).
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: wally21
OK. I was going to start a new thread, but I think that my question fits pretty well here.

I have an '05 Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon that I purchased almost a year ago. It had 125k miles on it at the time, and I couldn't get any detailed maintenance history (Was it run only on synthetic oil? What were the typical OCIs?)

Since I bought it, I have run M1 0w40, Amsoil 0w30, and I'm now running Motul 300v 0w40.

Yes, I know that M1 is a great oil and that the Motul is probably overkill. Please don't respond just to tell me this.

My main question is this: not knowing the oil history of this car and knowing that Saabs can be sludgers (though my model year should be ok), should I run an oil with a high level of detergents?

I opted for the Motul with my latest oil change because I just wanted an extremely high quality ester-based oil (also considered Redline). However, being that it's mainly a racing oil, the 300v doesn't have the same detergent levels as street-use oils. Is this OK? Since I have a high-mileage vehicle, I've been thinking that I should run something like Pennzoil Ultra Euro 0w40, which cleans the engine very well.

Right now, I'm thinking that I could run PU for the next few changes to clean out the 125k+ miles of gunk and then switch back to the Motul. It seems to me that if you have a really high quality oil like Motul, as long as you don't go too long with your OCI, you shouldn't need much detergent. What do people think?


If the engine you have is a potential sludger or you want to do long OCI's, the detergent and dispersants in the add pack are important. All the major brand full synthetics or HM oils will help clean the engine, but I would look for a Calcium content of a least 2500 ppm if you have a VOA available and change it before the TBN is below one third of the VOA figure (About 3 minimum).


What oil on the planet has calcium at 2500ppm? Please post some examples
 
Originally Posted By: wally21
OK. I was going to start a new thread, but I think that my question fits pretty well here.

I have an '05 Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon that I purchased almost a year ago. It had 125k miles on it at the time, and I couldn't get any detailed maintenance history (Was it run only on synthetic oil? What were the typical OCIs?)

Since I bought it, I have run M1 0w40, Amsoil 0w30, and I'm now running Motul 300v 0w40.

Yes, I know that M1 is a great oil and that the Motul is probably overkill. Please don't respond just to tell me this.

My main question is this: not knowing the oil history of this car and knowing that Saabs can be sludgers (though my model year should be ok), should I run an oil with a high level of detergents?

I opted for the Motul with my latest oil change because I just wanted an extremely high quality ester-based oil (also considered Redline). However, being that it's mainly a racing oil, the 300v doesn't have the same detergent levels as street-use oils. Is this OK? Since I have a high-mileage vehicle, I've been thinking that I should run something like Pennzoil Ultra Euro 0w40, which cleans the engine very well.

Right now, I'm thinking that I could run PU for the next few changes to clean out the 125k+ miles of gunk and then switch back to the Motul. It seems to me that if you have a really high quality oil like Motul, as long as you don't go too long with your OCI, you shouldn't need much detergent. What do people think?


You have an engine with a turbo. Find an approved oil and run with it. See if motul makes one. Turbos spin a few hundred thousand rpms,and get insanely hot. Do you really want to risk potential damage by not running an approved oil.
Do what you want but I wouldn't risk it. Potential coking of the turbo comes to mind right off the bat.
 
Originally Posted By: wally21
OK. I was going to start a new thread, but I think that my question fits pretty well here.

I have an '05 Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon that I purchased almost a year ago. It had 125k miles on it at the time, and I couldn't get any detailed maintenance history (Was it run only on synthetic oil? What were the typical OCIs?)

Since I bought it, I have run M1 0w40, Amsoil 0w30, and I'm now running Motul 300v 0w40.

Yes, I know that M1 is a great oil and that the Motul is probably overkill. Please don't respond just to tell me this.

My main question is this: not knowing the oil history of this car and knowing that Saabs can be sludgers (though my model year should be ok), should I run an oil with a high level of detergents?

I opted for the Motul with my latest oil change because I just wanted an extremely high quality ester-based oil (also considered Redline). However, being that it's mainly a racing oil, the 300v doesn't have the same detergent levels as street-use oils. Is this OK? Since I have a high-mileage vehicle, I've been thinking that I should run something like Pennzoil Ultra Euro 0w40, which cleans the engine very well.

Right now, I'm thinking that I could run PU for the next few changes to clean out the 125k+ miles of gunk and then switch back to the Motul. It seems to me that if you have a really high quality oil like Motul, as long as you don't go too long with your OCI, you shouldn't need much detergent. What do people think?



With the 2005, you should be out of the woods, relatively speaking. M1 0W40 should be fine. Or if you're convinced PU will be even better, w regard to cleaning action, go that route. However, if you are truly concerned about cleaning up gunk, one thing that did NOT change with the post-sludge years 9-5s (until the all new inteneration of the 9-5 several years later) was the mesh size of the oil pickup screen. I would think if you could drop the pan, and give it a good cleaning (with the mesh of course), clean any large, visible deposits on the underside of the crank assembly, and make sure the lines to/from the turbo are clear, you SHOULD have worry-free driving.
 
Originally Posted By: wally21
OK. I was going to start a new thread, but I think that my question fits pretty well here...

I missed this thread the first time around, glad to see it being bumped.

I have a 2003 9-5 Aero, stick shift, which I bought new. It has almost 174k miles on it. I'm in the process of trying to decide if we're going to keep it for just another 6 months or so (at which point we'd buy a minivan and I'd take over my wife's 2006 Accord with 70k) or if we want to defer the minivan and keep the Saab longer. It's actually going in to my superb Saab-specialist mechanic tonight for a checkup.

I have used Mobil 1 TDT 5W-40 for the vast majority of the oil changes, with 5k OCIs. I've done UOAs every couple of years, and this oil has proved to perform well. I've also used AutoRX on it 4 times I think, purely as a precautionary measure, with conventional 10W-40 for short OCIs. I have not dropped the pan to inspect the screen, or looked at the lines around the turbo. I did upgrade the PCV system to the latest about 3 years ago. I suppose I take it as faith that the engine is in good shape sludge-wise. It is still very strong and returns great mileage.

FWIW I have close to zero faith that any motor oil "cleans" to any extent. Yes they have detergents and whatnot but my guess is the level they have is for maintaining cleanliness, not actively removing significant deposits. I consider Pennzoil et al's advertised cleaning claims (up to XX%!) as no different from the old "Castrol GTX, maximum protection against thermal breakdown!" ads. Meaningless.

As a few others have said, these engines went through a few variations in terms of oil & OCI recommendations, PCV setups, etc, and some of the conventional wisdom doesn't really apply. I would definitely use a 0W-40 or 5W-40, and stick with 5k OCIs. My UOAs showed the TDT pretty well depleted at that point.

jeff
 
Friend has owned Saab turbos over the years and always ran M1 0W40 at around a 7500 mile oci. Never an issue. Given that you can get M1 at Wally World for about $6.50 per qt, the answer seems clear.
 
@teddyboy, no offense but you can't let your guard down with the sludger year engines. I was/am a moderator on a saab forum and there were plenty of "it can't happen to me, I always run the right synth" folks that ended up with new turbos, at the very least, and often "new" engines...

@greenjp, yep, I tried the whole, cleaning w/ oil thing, along w/ various cleaners and arx is the only thing that removed the least amount of buildup so I always used at least a maintenance dose w/ every fill. My OCIs were 5k miles that were typically 95-99% highway miles.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I would love to be able to drop the pan and take a good look for myself and clean what needs to be cleaned, but I really don't have the space/time to do such a thing (I've heard that this can be a bit of a pain). Maybe I'll take it to a shop to do this.

I'll probably start with some OAs to see where things stand.

Clevy, I understand that turbos are very hard on oil. I don't think that any of the oils that I mentioned will have a problem with turbo stresses. The PU exceeds the ACEA A3/B3 specs that Saab recommends. The Motul is a racing oil, and they don't bother to get it rated. But, I can't imagine that it would have a problem with a street-use turbo.

So PU's cleaning ability is overrated?
 
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