New Member/ New Vehicle/New Oil?

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DABEAR95

Joined
Jan 8, 2003
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157
Location
Roseville, MI
Hello Everyone!

I have been using the search function for most of the day, reading/gathering some great information. This is quite a place! I thought I would just toss this out now for some good conversation.

I was given the address of the site by Patman. He frequents another message board that I also visit (Thanks Patman!).

The reason I’ve come to the site is that I have just purchased a new vehicle for my daily transportation. The engine has some unique characteristics compared to others I have owned, and I am still undecided on which oil I will use for this application.

Some background about my previous vehicles and my motor oil choices

1995 Camaro LT1
Mobil 1 10w30 with K&N filters. Vehicle is only driven occasionally during the summer thus amounting to an oil change each spring prior to starting the vehicle. (Used AC Delco Ultra guard but I have not been able to find these recently)

2002 Volkswagen Golf TDI
Mobil Delvac 1 at 10,000 miles intervals (Sending in for my first oil analysis shortly)

The Volkswagen is for my fiancé, my previous daily driven automobile was a 93 Ford Escort that served me well for 135K miles with Valvoline 10w30 dino oil and motorcraft filters. All of my previous daily driven vehicles have received conventional oil at 3,000 mile intervals with the exception of a turbo vehicle that received synthetic.

I would like to stick with conventional oil for my new vehicle however I am not sure it will be the wisest selection for the life of the engine. The Vehicle is a 2003 Pontiac Vibe GT, equipped with the Toyota/Yamaha 2ZZ-GE. The engine is more advanced and complex than any engine I have owned and also loves high RPM’s. The redline is 8,200 RPM, and it pulls all the way. Not that I have been there much as I am just approaching 1,000 miles on the odometer.
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The engine offers variable valve timing and lift. Valve timing changes based on engine speed and load. It also changes cam profiles and valve lift at 6,000RPM. For those of you that have experienced a gasoline turbo spooling it is similar, however the power seems to “turn on” like flipping a light switch at 6K RPM.

Here is a white paper about the engine if you are interested…
White Paper

My concern is that the high RPM’s will cause problems for conventional motor oil and cause additional bearing wear…

Any thoughts?
cheers.gif

Jason Sirek
 
Welcome! I'm the least knowledgable on this board (don't worry, others will give there thoughts) but I would just stick with any M1 or Amsoil product. Both are excellent. This link below, for what its worth, talks highly of Amsoil's 0w-30. If your going for long drains and engine cleanliness, I would say go with Amsoil. Either way, you can't go wrong with M1/Amsoil. I believe a good HT/HS would be a thing to look for in a HIGH RPM engine. If price is a factor, M1 should be a good fit. I'm doing a search now to see if i can find M1 10w-30's HT/HS. Amsoil has an impressive >3.5
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http://www.bimmerforums.com/AmsoilStudybyBobM3.php

[ January 09, 2003, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
welcome.gif


Glad you made it here Jason!

I'm sure that you'll find what you need on here! This is where the oil junkies are!
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I would definitely go with synthetic for that engine, what viscosity does it call for? There are many good synthetic choices, it's hard to pick just one. Amsoil, Redline, Mobil 1, Royal Purple all offer good synthetics, and Schaeffer oil offers an awesome blend too, which would also work well.
 
The manual recommends 5w30 all year and allows for 10w30 when the temperature is over 40 degrees

Is a good filter such as the K&N oil filter suitable for say a 6,000 mile drain in a gasoline engine, or does the filter need to be changed more frequently?
 
I'm betting the K&N oil filters are good to 6k pretty easily, as that's how long I'll leave them on my wife's car. With mine, since it's so much bigger, I feel it's easily safe to 9k, possibly even 12k.
 
I have been doing more reading on the site and now have another problem
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Which oil filter...

Since the car spins to over 8,000 RPM, I'm sure its pumping allot of oil. I know I don't want to bypass the filter, so a filter that flows a ton of oil will be a must. I was hoping just to use an AC Delco filter with conventional oil. Now it looks like a K&N filter with Mobil 1.


Aaarrgghh.

[ January 10, 2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: DABEAR95 ]
 
Choosing an oil filter is an even tougher job than choosing an oil. At least with an oil we can do oil analysis and see which oils produce good results for us, but there is no simple way to see how an oil filter is working for us. We just have to use blind faith!
smile.gif
 
Just use OEM filter, Toyota in your case.

Aftermarket invariably misses something when making copies. In my case a couple things. I just went to BMW filters and now my oil pressure jumps up instantly after a cold start. Used to take ~2 seconds even in summer. A quick blow test showed the ADBV to leak a fair amount on the M1 and supertech. But basically none on the BMW.

ALSO the bypass setting on the MANN filter (either mann or mahle is OEM)for my car is 2.5bar (36psi). The Baldwin catalog list the wrong filter for my car (but would fit) with a bypass of only 8psi! Wonder what the Champions for my car are set at.
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AND my oil pressure is higher with the BMW fiter (more flow). Idle psi is maybe same or 2psi higher (resolution not good on guage below 20psi). And at 2k rpm it is about 5-10psi higher. All this despite having thinner oil this time, since I had to mix in 1.25qt of 5w30. (out of about 4.5qt total)!

[ January 10, 2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
AND my oil pressure is higher with the BMW fiter (more flow). Idle psi is maybe same or 2psi higher (resolution not good on guage below 20psi). And at 2k rpm it is about 5-10psi higher. All this despite having thinner oil this time, since I had to mix in 1.25qt of 5w30. (out of about 4.5qt total)!
Click to expand...
Could lowering the viscosity of your oil be the cause and not the filter?
 
DABEARS,

Looking at the engine design with a power density of 0.1 Hp/cc, this is another one of those high power density engines that should be tough on oil, as are some Toyotas and Nissans.

I would recommend a FULL synthetic becuase this is a "Low-Heat" rejection engine, a design incorporated to obtain maximum thermal efficiency in the combustion chamber.
This is verified in part by the compression ratio. A thermally stable and oxidation resistant oil would be a must.

Redline, Mobil 1, or Amsoil would be the my choice with not less than 0W30 weights
of oils.

Edit: I would also recommend 3.5k Oil change intervals with analysis for the first 30k.

[ January 10, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
MolaKule, in an effort to conform with the warranty requirements I will need to use a 5w30 oil. I will be able to fib a bit on my driving style (Highway Vs City) in order to stretch the drain interval in the future if I want to. But I don't think I want to run an oil other than what is specified during the warranty period.

Thanks!
Jason
 
Jason Troxell, interesting that I have a choice on which OEM filter to use. It is a Pontiac Vibe with a Toyota engine. The same engine used in the Matrix XRS and Celica GT-S. I wonder if there is any difference in the oil filter I would get from my GM dealer, versus the Toyota dealer down the road??
dunno.gif


One way to find out
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Good question! Wonder if they would give you an AC cross-ref filter at the Pontiac dealer. Probably...doubt they would hand you a filter with Toyota stamped on it. If that's the case I would go with the Toyota.
What did it come with?

[ January 10, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]
 
Jason,

"MolaKule, in an effort to conform with the warranty requirements I will need to use a 5w30 oil. I will be able to fib a bit on my driving style (Highway Vs City) in order to stretch the drain interval in the future if I want to. But I don't think I want to run an oil other than what is specified during the warranty period."

That's why I recommended "not less than a 0W30," in other words, 0W30, 5W30, 10W30, etc and NOT a 5W20 or a 0W5 and such. I am glad to see that not less than a 5W30 viscosity is specified at least during warranty.

Good luck and enjoy your new vehicle. Let us know how it performs.
 
Actually I would even consider Red Line 5w20. And you would have to also, if you think M1 xw30 is OK. It's visc is only .6 cSt lower than M1 xw30, yet the HTHS is a little higher. (and flash, lower noack) I think it may avoid the economy drop some see with Red Line due to it's shear stability, while still provinding better protection. I was thinking of trying that in the Jimmy instead of the 10w30, but since it is a low revving engine, would it even make a difference? Trying 10w30 in mine, so maybe better off keeping that in Jimmy too.
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But since you are concerned about warranty I don't think RL is API cert. AMSoil either... I guess that only leaves M1
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I'm not sure what filter is on the car. I only have approximatly 700 miles. I plan to change the oil at 1500, then again at 3,000.


Jason
 
quote:
Originally posted by DABEAR95:
I'm not sure what filter is on the car. I only have approximatly 700 miles. I plan to change the oil at 1500, then again at 3,000.


Jason
Click to expand...
If it were my new car I'd do the first oil change at 500 miles, then again around 1500, then at 3000.
 
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