New Laptop Buying Philosophical Question

[gathermewool]

Since my college laptop died soon after graduation around a decade ago, I've only had to purchase a couple of laptops. Two were 17" desktop replacements that I had no issues traveling with. They stayed cool, provided great keyboards, a lot of screen real estate, and hardware better than or similar to 15.6" options, and much better than even small laptops for similar money. Compared to ultra-portables, the cost/performance is much lower.

My most recent purchase, almost four years ago, was an HP 11.6" ultra-portable with an AMD E-350 APU. All things considered it has served me well, though it is very slow at just about every task. I purchased it for travel, which I do 2-3X/year for 2-4 weeks/year, and was very happy initially. I also used it for tuning my previous car, an '08 STI, since it was very portable and had enough battery life to log long road trips. I was able to toss this thing anywhere and while small, the keyboard and other features were more than good enough.

Looking around, larger laptops that aren't purpose-built for gaming aren't popular any more, and aren't often seen on discount with mid or better specs AND at a good price or with better features. What do you guys think? Has the ultra-book craze affected the ability to buy a larger laptop with premium quality and content for a good price?

Speaking of cost:

My previous, larger laptops were all closer to a grand in cost, but were much better values, since they gave up portability for much more space to cram better gear. The latest was $450, but had middling to low specs, even back when I bought it.

Now that I'm not tuning any longer, I've noticed while on travel that I miss being able to game (not very often, but I do like to play games like Civ 5 and other RTS games in my free time) and perform more productivity tasks (even things like word, excel, etc. are much better on larger screens.)

What do you guys think?

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I (didn't pay for, but) requested a high-end Dell custom-built when I returned to my company after 22 months. 8GB ram, still with Windows 7 (late 2014 build) and a touchscreen. Could not be happier with the speed and the "old" Windows.

 

[BearZDefect]

15.6" laptops are now considered large, and 1080 line LCDs are becoming common even in smaller sizes.
If you want discrete graphics then a 15.6" chassis is good for more cooling capacity than smaller units.
How does a 15.6" 1080p laptop display look to you for your usage?

 

[razel]

I also am a big laptop person. It's my desktop replacement around the home for productive stuff. I'm taneously, stubbornly holding onto my HP 18" from 2008. The only 18s" around today are the Dell XPS 18 and now discontinued AlienWare 18. I also used to game, but times along with myself have changed. I enjoy RTS like Civilization Revolution and XCOM, but I now game those on tablets.

Luckily for yourself 17" are easier to find.

 

[Donald]

Many people buy laptops as a "computer guts" and use external keyboard/display/mouse.

And the few times they travel, they use it as a laptop.

When I go on vacation I bring a Kindle for the web/email.

I do have a spare latop however. Given my spare laptop was under $200 (refurbished) from Walmart, I felt it smart to get a spare. For a telecommuting person working on computer security, there is little I can do with no laptop.

 

[bigt61]

The AMD laptops are still nice...and relatively cheap. I know HP has a 17" for under $500. I like the bigger screens too.

 

[gathermewool]

I've recently played with 15.6" laptops in stores and they feel adequate, but I've had my 11.6" for so long that maybe I've grown accustomed and adapted to smaller screens. My affinity for larger screens comes from the 17" HP and Toshiba that I had ~6-10 years ago, respectively.

I also think a 1080p screen would be perfect for a well-optioned (to include discreet graphics) laptop, without the need for an ultra-expensive, ultra hot-operating, ultra-fat piece of gear.

I've got a low-mid level gaming desktop (Sandy Bridge i7 and AMD HD 5850 graphics card with 27" 4k monitor) that I purchased at the same time as my current laptop. I thought the higher-end, larger PC and lower-end ultra-portable would compliment each other, and they did for a while, but now I don't have time to game by myself in the computer room and would prefer to complete all productivity and gaming in the living room, next to my wife and baby.

I remember my 17"ers being great work horses and easily portable (to me, at least - most reviewers talk about them like they're behemoth and archaic, relics of a bygone era, where the larger chassis was required for power, while newer ultra-portable laptops with smaller CPUs do just fine in smaller packages.

//

So, with all of that said, even cheap laptops with discreet Intel graphics (Haswell or Broadwell) MIGHT be able to handle the small amount of gaming I want to do with it, and excel at productivity programs, while giving better battery life on lower voltage chips.

So, would it make more sense to buy a cheaper ($500) laptop twice as often or keep a grand+ laptop longer (4+ years vs 6-7 years)?

I usually donate my old laptops to family or repurchase them, FWIW.

 

[gathermewool]

I was replying on my phone earlier while running errands.

Originally Posted By: Chris Meutsch
I (didn't pay for, but) requested a high-end Dell custom-built when I returned to my company after 22 months. 8GB ram, still with Windows 7 (late 2014 build) and a touchscreen. Could not be happier with the speed and the "old" Windows.


Do you do any gaming? Have you found the touch screen something you dislike and never use, something you've grown used to, or something that you feel you can't live without now, assuming your previous laptops haven't had a touch screen?

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
15.6" laptops are now considered large, and 1080 line LCDs are becoming common even in smaller sizes.
If you want discrete graphics then a 15.6" chassis is good for more cooling capacity than smaller units.
How does a 15.6" 1080p laptop display look to you for your usage?


That's what it seems like, with some manufacturers showcasing SOME of their premium upgrades first in the 13.3" ultra-portables (Apple Macbook Pro comes to mind.) The 15.6" models still seem to be the sweet spot for portability, price, and room for premium components (quad vs dual core i7 processors and higher-end discreet graphics.)

I just don't have any experience long-term. Ideally, I'd find something that will allow me to play Civ 5 and a few similar games out now that will last me for the next half decade plus.

I'd even consider an Apple, but I'm still not sure the premium price is worth it. They've also got Microsoft guts, but tend to perform under equivalent Microsoft options; however, they seem to do everything else better for longer.

Originally Posted By: razel
I also am a big laptop person. It's my desktop replacement around the home for productive stuff. I'm taneously, stubbornly holding onto my HP 18" from 2008. The only 18s" around today are the Dell XPS 18 and now discontinued AlienWare 18. I also used to game, but times along with myself have changed. I enjoy RTS like Civilization Revolution and XCOM, but I now game those on tablets.

Luckily for yourself 17" are easier to find.


I'm really looking for something that will be used on my lap most of the time, on a desk in front of me occasionally, and for travel purposes for a few weeks per year.

The only tablet I've ever owned was a refurb Toshiba Thrive, which was fun to play with and root, but too cumbersome and clunky for everyday use. I had a feeling I wouldn't really be into tabs, which is why I went for the two year-old (at the time) refurb Thrive, since it wasn't very expensive to learn on.

I know that even cheaper tabs nowadays are loads better than the Thrive, but I still don't think I'd be a fan of tablet gaming. Besides, I rarely even play games on my HTC One, though I do occasionally enjoy games like Mechanarium, which play nicely on my phone, negating (for me, at least,) the need for a new tab.

I'd welcome your input, though, since I don't have much experience with them.

Originally Posted By: Donald
Many people buy laptops as a "computer guts" and use external keyboard/display/mouse.

And the few times they travel, they use it as a laptop.

When I go on vacation I bring a Kindle for the web/email.

I do have a spare latop however. Given my spare laptop was under $200 (refurbished) from Walmart, I felt it smart to get a spare. For a telecommuting person working on computer security, there is little I can do with no laptop.


One place a work at occasionally does this, but whether the laptops start off slow (they usually upgrade with older i3 processor-powered laptops vice more-business-workstation-oriented i5's) or they simply have too many programs running or their cooling is poor, they all seem to perform very poorly! I'm talking about as poor as you'd expect a malware-riddled laptop to run while multitasking or loading.

For me, as above, the laptop will almost never be used with an external keyboard, mouse, and monitor. For this reason, a good touchpad with independent cursor buttons, key layout and mechanisms, etc. is very important to me. Besides the fact that my DM1 laptop is prone to accidental key presses and touchpad palm-taps that frustrate me to no end, it types very well. The key action is precises and the board has little flex.

The touch pad is very small, though and the "keys" are a part of the touch pad, which I find annoying and counter-productive, making spreadsheet manipulation and even long typing tedious.

Originally Posted By: bigt61
The AMD laptops are still nice...and relatively cheap. I know HP has a 17" for under $500. I like the bigger screens too.


This is one of my questions, too: does it make sense to buy these cheaper, moderately-appointed laptops more frequently, so that I can maintain durability (supposedly,) while taking advantage of the advances in tech the cheapest way possible?

One concern, is that most cheaper laptops, while equipped with much more powerful hardware than my current laptop, seem to be made cheaply, so while I'll be upgrading speed frequently, the simple things, like fit and finish (to a minor degree,) keyboard operation, and other features that may be simply loads better, more durable or more usable over the long haul in more-expensive laptops.

 

[BearZDefect]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
... more durable or more usable over the long haul ...

I agree with this. I find that I can happily use a laptop with a good keyboard, pointing device, and LCD for half a decade. But if these human interface devices are lousy I will be fed up with it quickly. It also needs an effective and quiet cooling system that is not prone to clogging with lint.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
... more durable or more usable over the long haul ...

I agree with this. I find that I can happily use a laptop with a good keyboard, pointing device, and LCD for half a decade. But if these human interface devices are lousy I will be fed up with it quickly. It also needs an effective and quiet cooling system that is not prone to clogging with lint.


Great point. There are plans for many more passively-cooled laptops to come to market, and not just bottom-of-the-line Chromebooks, that have me pretty excited. I'm interested to see whether they come out with any hybrid cooling solutions, where a fan-cooled heat sink is only necessary for heavy use, and the laptop will run completely silently (assuming SSD) for light to moderate use (such as surfing the internet, working on a word document or spread sheet.

I'm looking mostly for something ergonomic that I came do some light gaming on, but would definitely consider something that can cool itself passively through the case (like every smart phone on the market) AND still run at a relatively high level of performance. It may thermally throttle itself during intense use, but hopefully, being sealed, it won't degrade over time due to dirt and moisture intrusion. We'll see...

 

[BearZDefect]

If you can get by with integrated graphics then that is one less hot chip to keep cool.

I don't think it is fair to compare a laptop to a smart phone yet. Laptops are expected to be able to run serious computation tasks for significant lengths of time. If you try that with a smart phone, not only will it accomplish much less because the processor is weaker, but it will soon overheat the whole case.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
If you can get by with integrated graphics then that is one less hot chip to keep cool.

I don't think it is fair to compare a laptop to a smart phone yet. Laptops are expected to be able to run serious computation tasks for significant lengths of time. If you try that with a smart phone, not only will it accomplish much less because the processor is weaker, but it will soon overheat the whole case.

I didn't mean to say that I was looking at passively-cooled laptops with Qualcomm processors, but relatively highly capabale processors (key word, 'relatively') like low-voltage intel iX processors. This would be a completely different route to take, course, where I'd be trading off, like you supposed, a lot of capability for possible longevity, if no fans really would result in less issues resulting from dirt ingress.

I'm still mostly looking toward a laptop with discreet graphics, since I really do want to game, though not very often, admittedly.