And fewer jobs for Americans.
New Impala engines
- Thread starter John K
- Start date
- Status
Toyota, Honda, Nissan have created more new jobs in this country in the last 10 years than the big 3.
Which creates more jobs in the US, a made in Canada Ford with a Mexican engine or a made in US Camry with US made engine?
Even if that were the case, which it is not, Does that ever occour to anyone WHY????? if you need a reminder, just go back to 1980...
Wouldn't buy anything under 22 years old!
Explain why GM employs more Americans than all the foreign transplants combined.
Simple, because they're a large American transportation manufacturing company. That does not change the fact, however, that a US-built Camry, for example, is more American than half of the stuff "Detroit" builds these days. You may find some comfort in simplistic "us and them" thinking about cars and where they're from, but that simply does not reflect the way things actually are today in 2005.
EDIT: BTW, what does this have to do with new Impala engines. I could also add that the 3.4L that goes into the Chevy Equinox is made in China fer cryin' out loud. Now there's a patriotic move by GM.
[ September 24, 2005, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: ekpolk ]
I think it's really amusing that some people blame Toyota's ongoing quality "issues" on the fact that they build cars in the USA.
Could well be the Ford. There are many jobs other than the engine and assembly. According to GM's figures, they average 85% domestic content, and Honda, best of the transplants, 49%. Different models vary, but when it comes to American jobs, all the transplants are blowing smoke.
XS650 is pointing out that the domestic content numbers may be blowing smoke when it comes to American job figures. By including Canada and Mexico in the domestic content definition, NAFTA has made figures like 85% domestic content misleading. For instance, since the Impala is assembled in Canada, Autobytel.com says you are better off buying an Accord if you are interested in saving American jobs.
What happens to the dollars that GM sends to China??? GM, Ford, and Chrysler have all evolved into multi-national monsters. Their loyalty to an American job disappears the moment that their bean counters decide that eliminating that job or moving it overseas will add one cent to their bottom line. Sure, in raw numbers, the "transplants", as you all are referring to them, do not presently have as many American employees as GM, Ford, and Chrysler, but to return to the Camry example, there are a lot of dollars staying right here, as the engine and car are made right here. Yes, there are other things that go into making the car, but do you really think that Toyota is importing paint, seats, carpet, and the like to make these cars? I'm sure some parts are imported, but hey, the same is far more true for some Ford and GM models. All I'm trying to say is that "buying American" is no longer the simple proposition that it once was. Now, it takes some thought and homework beyond just looking at a nameplate.
Mexico is NOT included in domestic parts content, but Canada is.
The Camry has a 70% domestic parts content, which is good. Most GM models have more than a 70% parts content, which is the absolute best parts content Japan has to offer. My Chevy Cavalier has an 86% domestic parts content plus is union made in a higher wage state (Ohio). You're trying to make the point that Japanese cars that are assembled in the USA are more American than a GM car. That's just not true no matter how far you try to stretch the truth.quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
What happens to the dollars that GM sends to China??? GM, Ford, and Chrysler have all evolved into multi-national monsters. Their loyalty to an American job disappears the moment that their bean counters decide that eliminating that job or moving it overseas will add one cent to their bottom line. Sure, in raw numbers, the "transplants", as you all are referring to them, do not presently have as many American employees as GM, Ford, and Chrysler, but to return to the Camry example, there are a lot of dollars staying right here, as the engine and car are made right here. Yes, there are other things that go into making the car, but do you really think that Toyota is importing paint, seats, carpet, and the like to make these cars? I'm sure some parts are imported, but hey, the same is far more true for some Ford and GM models. All I'm trying to say is that "buying American" is no longer the simple proposition that it once was. Now, it takes some thought and homework beyond just looking at a nameplate.
quote:
Originally posted by cousincletus:
The Camry has a 70% domestic parts content, which is good. Most GM models have more than a 70% parts content, which is the absolute best parts content That ANY Japanese model has to offer. Most are 0 to 55%. My Chevy Cavalier has an 86% domestic parts content plus is union made in a higher wage state (Ohio). You're trying to make the point that Japanese cars that are assembled in the USA are more American than a GM car. That's just not true no matter how far you try to stretch the truth.quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
What happens to the dollars that GM sends to China??? GM, Ford, and Chrysler have all evolved into multi-national monsters. Their loyalty to an American job disappears the moment that their bean counters decide that eliminating that job or moving it overseas will add one cent to their bottom line. Sure, in raw numbers, the "transplants", as you all are referring to them, do not presently have as many American employees as GM, Ford, and Chrysler, but to return to the Camry example, there are a lot of dollars staying right here, as the engine and car are made right here. Yes, there are other things that go into making the car, but do you really think that Toyota is importing paint, seats, carpet, and the like to make these cars? I'm sure some parts are imported, but hey, the same is far more true for some Ford and GM models. All I'm trying to say is that "buying American" is no longer the simple proposition that it once was. Now, it takes some thought and homework beyond just looking at a nameplate.
I don't presume to put words into your mouth, don't do it to me. It is you who stretch the truth by mischaracterizing what I said, and then based upon the mischaracterization, you suggest that I'm "stretching the truth." Right. You can go on all day long the particulars of one car or another's content, the point is, long gone is the day where you can get away with the silly-simple labeling of one car as "American" and another as just "Japanese". Every single one of them has its own unique blend of made-here and made-there parts.
In addition, there's more to it than whether one car's %-age of content is higher than another's. For example, I firmly believe that GM's dealings with the Chinese are borderline treason. So not only does GM give away American jobs, but they give them to a country whose ultimate aim is to defeat us economically and militarily, if need be. So here's GM, dealing with the devil, but they're still your hero. I happen to think that GM builds some decent products, but GM loses a lot of points in my mind because I find many of their dealings totally un-American.
Finally, I absolutely refuse to buy into any of your "buy American to protect my job" guilt trip. I've spent 25 years serving this country, including about three years total combined time completely apart from my family. I've paid my dues, several times over, and I'll buy whatever car I want that I can afford. If those engineers and execs to whom you give your blind loyalty can't offer a product I want, I will go elsewhere.
Not that it excuses what they did, but, GM is hardly alone in questionable dealings with the Chinese. As one example of another company, Seagate started making hard drives there 8 years ago.
You couldn't be more right. In fact, the Seagate situation is all the more dismaying because it's in the high-tech and internet realm where we are seeing the greatest degree of threat from the Chinese. I forgot which of the prominent commies it was who said the the capitalist will gladly sell you the rope with which we will hang him, but alas, there may be some truth to this. . . I admit it's a bit of a stretch (OK Cletus, now you can hammer me for stretching), but I'm imagining a day in the not-so-distant future when the Chinese army is rolling east through LA in a fleet of Chevy powered vehicles.
I'm getting a vison of lowered 60s impalas full of PLA soldiers rolling through East LA with Mao's sayings blaring to a rap beat.
- Status
