New Honda 2002 Si with Oil question(s)

Messages
6
Location
SF CA
I have been reading the posts for 1 week now. I currently have 1800 miles on my new 2002 Honda Si. I drive about 240 miles a week. I still have my stock Honda break-in 5w-20 oil. (added about 3/4 qt to keep up with the burning). The question is when should I do my first oil change with reg 5w-20oil? The Honda manual says 5000 miles but I am thinking at 3000 miles. Some people say "you should do one at 500 miles". I am past that mark and need everyones advise. I am holding off on the Synth till I hit at least 5000 miles(?). I will be using Mobil 1 5w-30 for the Synth. Any advise will help. BTW I live in SF CA. The temp does not get too high or too low. 80% of the time I am below 4500 rpm. 75% is highway miles. Best Regards
 
Messages
1,310
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Hiya, I changed the oil on my truck after the 1st 500 miles. I'm not sure if the dealer told me to do this or who but it seems to make sense. All the little bits floating around from manufacturing I think would need to be taken out soon. I'm now @ 114K+ so I don't think there are any side effects (knock on wood [Big Grin] ), especially since you're at 1800. Another board member should be able to help with this and the other oil questions, too. [Welcome!]
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
I still recommend my Amsoil customers run 6000-7500 miles in a gas engine or 10,000 miles in a pickup truck diesel engine before switching over. Some engines like VW's still use a hard, chrome moly piston ring and it takes a while to fully seat these. I have been recommending this procedure for over 20 years and have seen very low oil consumption as a result. I'd go with Hondas recommendation and leave the 5w-20 in at least until the oil consumption stabilizes. TooSlick
 
Messages
13
Location
Durham NC
The Honda owners manual says synthetic is ok to use. The Honda web site says, before making the first oil change, to leave the factory fill in for the correct milage or time based on normal or severe service. So, as long as you leave the factory fill in for, at a minimum, the number of miles or time defined by severe servive, and then do a change to synthetic, you will be following Honda's guidelines.
 

Jay

Messages
1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
quote:
Originally posted by Chris: Why not get some more of this break-in oil and dump it? [Wink]
The factory-fill break-in oil isn't even available to dealers. There's no part number to order it. If a dealer replaces an engine they fill them with regular oil. The high moly content of the break-in oil may come from the assembly grease.
 
Messages
922
Location
Ontario , Canada
I'm driving the same vehicle, I changed mine at 1500 miles and changed to 5w-30 Castrol GTX. Seems to be working fine, I did a baseline dyno after I changed the oil and the numbers came out fine power-wise. Its a hard question to answer, I know Honda is really pushing to leave the oil in for the first oil change, I dont know why they are pushing so hard for that now as they never have in the past. I think you are correct in not switching to synthetic until 6000 or more miles, I think Honda is now using a harder cylinder liner in these k20 engines and they may need more time to wear in. I tried synthetic briefly at 7000 miles and I am now back to Castrol GTX and their semi-synthetic Syntec Blend. I think I will stick with those two oils for the long haul.
 

chiakiplay

Thread starter
Messages
6
Location
SF CA
I would first like to thank all of you for responding. This site and all of you are great!! I have decided to do a 3500ish oil change with the non-synth 5w-20 oil. I will then wait to hit 6 or 8k to go synth. (5w-30) BTW JSIR, you are also on the civic-si forum. NICE!!!
 

chiakiplay

Thread starter
Messages
6
Location
SF CA
I would first like to thank all of you for responding. This site and all of you are great!! I have decided to do a 3500ish oil change with the non-synth 5w-20 oil. I will then wait to hit 6 or 8k to go synth. (5w-30) BTW JSIR, you are also on the civic-si forum. NICE!!!
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,990
Location
Oakville, Ontario
Do you plan on doing oil analysis on these oils? It would be interesting to see the wear numbers on 5w20 vs 5w30 (although I realize the test isn't perfect since the engine will show more wear during the break in)
 
Messages
349
Location
Quebec, Canada
Just a comment, I cannot believe that Honda is specifying 5W20 on a S2000 engine which has a redline of 9000RPM and 11.7:1 compression ratio. I think that's completely absurd! Regards, Oz
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
The Oz, One of the reasons why Honda specs 5w-20 oils for their high rpm engines is that the pumping losses increase as a function of engine speed. So using a lighter oil gives you more power at the top end - this effect is measurable on a Dynojet. If you were to run a heavier oil in this engine you would see a loss of power and fuel efficiency. Using the lighter oil also increases the volume of oil that flows throughout the system and provides better cooling. As oil pressure increases, the rate at which the oil flows throughout the engine decreases. For a very tight toleranced, high rpm engine you want to use a low viscosity oil. For a low rpm/high load engine like a big diesel, you want to run a 40wt or even a 50wt oil.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,725
Location
Iowegia - USA
I would like to see the shop manual's actual diametral clearance specs on the Honda bearings, otherwise, I still think it's all CAFE.
 
Messages
349
Location
Quebec, Canada
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: The Oz, One of the reasons why Honda specs 5w-20 oils for their high rpm engines is that the pumping losses increase as a function of engine speed. So using a lighter oil gives you more power at the top end - this effect is measurable on a Dynojet. If you were to run a heavier oil in this engine you would see a loss of power and fuel efficiency. Using the lighter oil also increases the volume of oil that flows throughout the system and provides better cooling. As oil pressure increases, the rate at which the oil flows throughout the engine decreases. For a very tight toleranced, high rpm engine you want to use a low viscosity oil. For a low rpm/high load engine like a big diesel, you want to run a 40wt or even a 50wt oil.
TooSlick, I did some researching and found this S2000 forum. Here is a thread for you guys to read. Looke for a post with an article that states "Tell Customers about S2000 Oil Consumption": http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=68966 Notice that Honda is recommending 10W30 year round for the '00-01 models. Now, I'm pretty sure there is a difference between the two motors. '00-01 I believe produces 240HP at 8000RPM with a redline of 8600RPM (someone please confirm). Whereas the '02 is rated for 253HP at 8500RPM. I'm quite sure that the 5W20 has a something to do with the increase in power output (possibly the extra 3HP). But why would Honda recommend 5W20 on a newer engine when the difference between it and its predecessor may be negligible? I'm going to agree with MolaKule here, and that is the recommend 5W20 weight is more for CAFE than actually protecting people's investments. Regards, Oz
 
Messages
5
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
The first oil change on my Honda CR-V was done at 5K miles. Currently the B20 motor has 64K miles. At that time I switched to Mobil 1 5w-30, Considering that I rev. the heck out of this engine I currently use a blend of 3 quarts of 10w-30 and 1 quart of 15w-50 M1 SS. I decided then to have my oil change interval at 8K miles using Honda(USA)oil filters (this may have to change). I never have had to add any oil between oil changes in this vehicle, the level of oil has always stayed at full between changes. I feel as if my break in process worked out quite well.
 

MMX

Messages
33
Location
Ontario, Canada
quote:
Originally posted by The_Oz: [QUOTE]Originally posted by TooSlick: [qb]Notice that Honda is recommending 10W30 year round for the '00-01 models. Now, I'm pretty sure there is a difference between the two motors. '00-01 I believe produces 240HP at 8000RPM with a redline of 8600RPM (someone please confirm). Whereas the '02 is rated for 253HP at 8500RPM.
No offence but it's the same old F20C1 since its debut. [email protected], 9000rpm redline.
 
Messages
349
Location
Quebec, Canada
quote:
Originally posted by MMX: [quote]No offence but it's the same old F20C1 since its debut.
Non taken at all. Thanks for clearing that up. Regards, Oz
 

Jay

Messages
1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
quote:
Originally posted by The_Oz: Just a comment, I cannot believe that Honda is specifying 5W20 on a S2000 engine which has a redline of 9000RPM and 11.7:1 compression ratio. I think that's completely absurd! Regards, Oz
Honda specifies 5w-30 for that engine and the 200 hp 11.0:1 compression RSX Type-S. The base model 160 hp 9.8:1 compression RSX engine gets the 5w-20.
 
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