New high performance 5.9 cummins.

Messages
9
Location
southern utah
Hello everyone, I am very excited to have found this forum. i have been reading a lot the last couple of days and now am more confused then when i started. I am right now in the process of building a high performance 12 valve 5.9 cummins. it is my daily hotrod and will be driven everyday. Right now it is at the machine shop being balanced bored, shot peened rods, getting a girdle, main studs, head studs, new pistons flycut with ceramic coating at 16.1 compresion, new cam and lifters. will be at around 700 hp for everyday driving with a future goal of 1000+. Doing all of this is not terribly inexpensive. So in an attempt to protect this investment i have been reading here. I am going to get an amsoil bypass filter system hoping that the filter will help the inevitable high soot levels with my large amount of fueling. My machinest says i need to run a high zink content oil for the first 1000 miles to break in the valve train. after that normal oil. so my question is when if ever to switch to a synthetic oil. I was convinced that synthetic was the way to go but after being around here it seems that conclusion is debateable. but i havent seen it discussed for a high horspwer diesel. I like the idea of a 5-40 oil for the many cold starts it will endure. with temps down to -10 during winter months. so if this were your engine what kind of breakin oil would you use after the first 1000 miles, dino or synthetic. and what type/brand of oil would you use hoping for longer OCI, hoping to change oil 1-2 times a year, around 20k miles driven a year. thanks.
 
Messages
1,528
Location
Bohica
Delo, Delvac, or Rotella. Not in that order,and either Dino or Syn.... I like Delo myself. It's the most cost effective oil I can find with the best results where I live. Schaeffer's and Amsoil are great options as well.
 
Messages
1,784
Location
Bonnyville, AB
In summer I would use something like an Amsoil or Red Line synthetic 15W-40, which is a straight grade oil that performs like a 15W-40, and in the winter I would use any of a variety of synthetic 5W-40s. I would still change the oil at 3,000 to 5,000 mile intervals due to the high soot loading, although used oil analysis could point you the right direction. Just make sure the engine is warm before you hammer on it, and it should stand up well.
 
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Messages
4,622
Location
Western Washington
 Originally Posted By: gs1000
So using a full synthetic right after the first 1000 miles will be fine, engine will break in normally?
I know with the gas engines it's possible, as many people have done it. Also, several gas cars come right from the factory with synthetic in them. RP says to wait until the 8-10k mark before using their oil in a diesel. From the RP FAQ- Can I put Royal Purple into my brand new car? Yes. Royal Purple currently offers many viscosity grades of API-licensed motor oils. To allow for proper break-in of the engine, Royal Purple recommends waiting until the manufacturer’s first scheduled oil change or a minimum of 2,000 miles in new gasoline engines. Allow 8,000 to 10,000 miles before using Royal Purple in diesel engines. So...
 

gs1000

Thread starter
Messages
9
Location
southern utah
Good to know. i thought that it was recomended to break in an engine on dino oil, just didn't know if it was true or not. Is there some type of anti wear additave i should use or is the oil alone enough?
 
Messages
1,417
Location
Alaska
Mercedes recommends for break in of their 366 5.9L 6 cyl diesel which is similar to your 5.9 Shell Rimula Ultra 5W-30 or 10W-40. They also use it for break-in in their 906 6.4L engine which is in my Unimog, which is the much improved successor engine to the 366 series (stock 260 hp @ 2200, 700 ft-lb; max factory rating 280/826). This is a fully synthetic oil, surprisingly. Not available in the US. Mine came from the factory with 5W-30. Your best bet for accurate information: I'd start making phone call or sending e-mails till you get someone knowledgeable at Cummins. Not at a dealer or even a Cummins shop but nat'l headquarters. Find out what they fill the engines with at the factory. Incidentally my engine wasn't fully broken in by the definition of not consuming oil until about 15000 miles. I now use Delvac 1 5W-40, not ESP but SHC because it has a higher Mercedes rating. For you the easier obtained ESP should be fine since it's CI-4 rated (also CJ of course) and has an outstanding soot dispersal ability. Also, I really hope you have a very large oil capacity. A large capacity greatly prolongs the life of the oil and its' additives and helps cool the oil, along with of course an oil cooler. To me, "large" is not 12 qt but 24-32 qt. OTOH your engine won't be highly stressed except momentarily when you push the go pedal because the truck is so light. Charlie Unimog U500/Unicat camper
 
Messages
1,417
Location
Alaska
I found an official Cummins oil spec page. They recommend using a standard CI-4 oil for breakin. Just to make the "no synthetic for breakin" people happy, use something like Delo 400 15W-40; make sure if it's LE that it's CI-4 as well as CJ. After 3-5000 miles feel free to switch to 5W-40 synthetic, like Delvac 1. Just to be sure, make sure it says "Cummins 20078" on the bottle. Charlie
 
Messages
6,388
Location
Washington St.
 Quote:
My machinist says I need to run a high zinc content oil for the first 1000 miles to break in the valve train.
I'd run a 15W-40 CI-4 or CI-4 Plus oil, not a CJ-4 or dual-rated CI-4 & CJ-4 oil. I'd run this for 1000, 3000, 3000, 3000 mile oil drain interval in this engine, then switch to an excellent oil like Schaeffer, Amsoil, Red Line, etc. Or, run Schaeffer Molybond conventional or syn-blend #700 from the beginning on those mileages, then switch to Schaeffer #9000 synthetic. The Molybond conventional or Supreme 7000 syn-blend has the moly plus zinc to do what the zinc is intended to do, only better. Or run Conoco/Phillips/76/Kendall 15W-40 CJ-4 with their "Liquid Titanium" that will protect as well as the high zinc.
 

gs1000

Thread starter
Messages
9
Location
southern utah
wow there is a lot of info here. thanks for all the responses. looks like i neeed to do some more research to find out what everything is,like what is moly?
 
Messages
2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
Find some CI-4+ dino for breaking in your new beast (Chevron, Kendall, JD...etc.). You could use the Amsoil PCO 15w40 synthetic blend too for your intermediate break in oil- because last I saw it was loaded with ZDDP and API rated CI-4+ with a pretty good price for the performance.
 
Messages
2,098
Location
The Rocky Mountains
Also some of our members swear that Schaeffer products have really done a great job in extreme motor combos. Grampsinthesand swears by their products and has UOA's (on some pretty sweet gasser engines) to back up their robustness. Good luck and keep it between the lines!
 
Messages
553
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
 Originally Posted By: gs1000
Hello everyone, I am very excited to have found this forum. i have been reading a lot the last couple of days and now am more confused then when i started. I am right now in the process of building a high performance 12 valve 5.9 cummins. it is my daily hotrod and will be driven everyday. Right now it is at the machine shop being balanced bored, shot peened rods, getting a girdle, main studs, head studs, new pistons flycut with ceramic coating at 16.1 compresion, new cam and lifters. will be at around 700 hp for everyday driving with a future goal of 1000+. Doing all of this is not terribly inexpensive. So in an attempt to protect this investment i have been reading here. I am going to get an amsoil bypass filter system hoping that the filter will help the inevitable high soot levels with my large amount of fueling. My machinest says i need to run a high zink content oil for the first 1000 miles to break in the valve train. after that normal oil. so my question is when if ever to switch to a synthetic oil. I was convinced that synthetic was the way to go but after being around here it seems that conclusion is debateable. but i havent seen it discussed for a high horspwer diesel. I like the idea of a 5-40 oil for the many cold starts it will endure. with temps down to -10 during winter months. so if this were your engine what kind of breakin oil would you use after the first 1000 miles, dino or synthetic. and what type/brand of oil would you use hoping for longer OCI, hoping to change oil 1-2 times a year, around 20k miles driven a year. thanks.
I'd love to see a picture! Those old 12 valves can be souped up to be some monsters. I've seen some vids of them. I love the sound of them too. Post up some pictures of your project! A possible alternative would be a non-synthetic 15w-40 for the summer months and a synthetic 5w-40 for the winter months. 2 OCI a year.
 

gs1000

Thread starter
Messages
9
Location
southern utah
I got my pieces back from the machine shop and now am waiting only for a camshaft support thingy. hope to start assembly on tuesday. Thanks for all the tips on oil, am thinking that shaeffers products will probably fit the bill. will try to post pics soon.
 
Messages
25
Location
Texas
I just read a post on TDR about Shaeffers oil and turbo surging on a 5.9 Cummins Dodge and turbo failure on some Cat generator industrial engines. You might check it out.
 
Messages
1,528
Location
Bohica
 Originally Posted By: hogpops
I just read a post on TDR about Shaeffers oil and turbo surging on a 5.9 Cummins Dodge and turbo failure on some Cat generator industrial engines. You might check it out.
Do you have a link to that, or do we have to subscribe to the TDR?
 
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