New FRAM Extra Guard PH4967 w/silicone valve

[Nyogtha]

Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
All that talk about 20 microns on the package and it is stated anywhere I see what the new and improve efficiency or the mileage rating is. Does Fram think they can just hit us with some new Bovine Showers?


Nothing updated on Fram's web site on the orange can change(s?). Still shows nitrile ADBV & prior mileage & efficiency info.

It woukd be interesting if this is a step to eliminating the Tough Guard. Fram elliminated the Fram Pro Plus orange can, the Tough Guard equivalent in the Fram Pro installer line, some time back although some of these still appear on eBay from time to time. The Fram Pro line just has two filters now, the Fram Pro white can equivalent to the retail orange can and the Fram Pro Synthetic equivalent to the retail Ultra, except lacking the Sure Grip coating on the installer line.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
How is it lying?

The omission of data you could have used to make an informed consumer decision rather they are counting on a new box and hype is an ethical Bovine Scat move!

That's not the definition of lying.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Interesting it lacks any "engineered for" mileage.

Fram warranty is still 1 year from date of purchase or date of installation, but never beyond original engine manufacturer recommendations as posted on Fram's web site. No changes even though Motorking informed us this warranty would be changed when he announced 20K mile rating for the Ultra.

I don't think any filter maker is going to warranty beyond the OEM use recomendations. Probably only on those cleanable reusable fine metal mesh filters.


I'd say you're mistaken.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/warranti...filter-warranty

Still says "for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval" in the first paragraph.

Champion Laboratories, Inc. provides this limited warranty to the original purchaser who use Mobil 1™ Extended Performance oil filter products manufactured or sold by Champion Laboratories, Inc., which are warrantied to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval.

The statements below that say "up to" 1 year or 15k or 20k depending on filter part number. Doesn't mean 15k or 20k if the OEM recommends only recommends 10k.

 

[Nyogtha]

Right below that are the bullets with more info, and 15 or 20K miles depends on whether it has an "A" suffix or not, just like I posted. That is the difference in "part number".

If not used with synthetic oil, then it's OE interval.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Right below that are the bullets with more info, and 15 or 20K miles depends on whether it has an "A" suffix or not, just like I posted. That is the difference in "part number".

If not used with synthetic oil, then it's OE interval.

Their warranty applies to both the 15k and 20k part numbers.

They also say:
This warranty does not cover any filter that: ...
or d) has remained in service beyond the original equipment recommended change interval.

It's possible a new Honda requiring full synthetic oil and using the A/B service schedule using the OLM with required oil filter change every other OCI, and driven up to 20k miles in a year would hit the max Champion Labs/Mobil 1 warranty period on an "A" suffix filter.

 

[goodtimes]

As for TRD they are an OES part supplied and branded by Toyota. Too bad for you, box marketing lingo.

Then there is Mann, Purflux and probably a hundred others. If Fram honestly tested all OES in the world, what a resource their data would be. Since they are the best, one could ask, why are they hiding the info?

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ The TRD filters were never made by the same supplier that made the original factory part (oil filter). TRD filters are OEM, but are not OES. See lnfo below.

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/-wh...-by-conor-fynes

"For starters, OES stands for Original Equipment Supplier, while OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer. Many of the parts you'll come across will fit one of these categories. People are sometimes confused because the definitions themselves are actually so similar. Put simply, an Original Equipment Supplier part is made by the manufacturer who made the original factory part for your vehicle model. On the other hand, an Original Equipment Manufacturer may not have made that specific part for your vehicle originally, but has an official contract history with the automaker."

 

[goodtimes]

Box is a liar. Well wrapped, sold! Just don't look too much inside the can. TRD is a Toyota filter, hence an OES. Purolator makes an OES for Toyota also, as does Denso. Nissan, Honda Filtech and Fram, FoMoCo, Delco, Mahle, Mann, Hengst, Purflux, on and on the list goes of filters that are OES. I call the box a liar, or give them a break, puffery. They are being a little generous to themselves is all. Until there is a documented list showing the EG beats all those brands, and more, too bad, it's not true.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Box is a liar. Well wrapped, sold! Just don't look too much inside the can. TRD is a Toyota filter, hence an OES. Purolator makes an OES for Toyota also, as does Denso. Nissan, Honda Filtech and Fram, FoMoCo, Delco, Mahle, Mann, Hengst, Purflux, on and on the list goes of filters that are OES. I call the box a liar, or give them a break, puffery. They are being a little generous to themselves is all. Until there is a documented list showing the EG beats all those brands, and more, too bad, it's not true.

If you think they are lying then get off the computer and go hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit against Fram for false advertising.

Might want to read up on OES vs OEM a bit more too - you missed the simple concept. So which Toyota vehicles coming off the factory line had Purolator or AC Delco made oil filters installed at the factory?

"Put simply, an Original Equipment Supplier part is made by the manufacturer who made the original factory part for your vehicle model."

 

[Garak]

Nice to see that the upgrades have made it here. Of course, given the pricing, it's not my filter of choice, but it is a positive!

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
I will start buying these, instead of the Ultra and Tough Guard. I change my oil every 6-7K anyways and the flow will be higher than the other Frams.

What makes you think flow will be better than the other Frams?


Two things I notice with the lesser Frams on my 13 year-old GMs.
No startup noise
Improved oil pressure at idle.

Your vehicle may see opposite results.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Box is a liar. Well wrapped, sold! Just don't look too much inside the can. TRD is a Toyota filter, hence an OES. Purolator makes an OES for Toyota also, as does Denso. Nissan, Honda Filtech and Fram, FoMoCo, Delco, Mahle, Mann, Hengst, Purflux, on and on the list goes of filters that are OES. I call the box a liar, or give them a break, puffery. They are being a little generous to themselves is all. Until there is a documented list showing the EG beats all those brands, and more, too bad, it's not true.

If you think they are lying then get off the computer and go hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit against Fram for false advertising.

Might want to read up on OES vs OEM a bit more too - you missed the simple concept. So which Toyota vehicles coming off the factory line had Purolator or AC Delco made oil filters installed at the factory?

"Put simply, an Original Equipment Supplier part is made by the manufacturer who made the original factory part for your vehicle model."


My Toyota came with a Japanese Denso. Fram tested? Fords come with FoMoCo Champ Labs. Fram would have to buy a new Ford and take it off. Fram tested? My Chevrolet came with an AC Delco made in Austria. Fram tested? Why don't you look up what supplier means and then call your boss at Fram and get the data. They don't have it is my guess. Firat admit you are a FramBoy, then find a 12 step detox program.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
My Toyota came with a Japanese Denso. Fram tested? Fords come with FoMoCo Champ Labs. Fram would have to buy a new Ford and take it off. Fram tested? My Chevrolet came with an AC Delco made in Austria. Fram tested?

I'd bet Fram does know the efficiency of typical OES filters (ie, the filters that were installed at the factory), and I doubt they are any better than 95% @ 20 microns per ISO 4548-12. We know Densos test out pretty bad per the Amsiol ISO 4548-12 data. We also know Motorcrafts are not better than 95% @ 20 microns. Doubt AC Delco can beat that either. You have proof that any oil filter installed at the factory is better then 95% @ 20 microns? That's basally what Fram's statement means - that their EG is more efficient than filters supplied and installed (OES) at the factory on new vehicles. Like I said, maybe you should try and sue Fram for supposed false advertising since you're such a Fram hater around here.

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Why don't you look up what supplier means and then call your boss at Fram and get the data. They don't have it is my guess. Firat admit you are a FramBoy, then find a 12 step detox program.

I'm more of a Framboy than a Puroboy, that's for sure. Actually a fan of any filter that's got good efficiency (95% @ 20 microns or better) and doesn't fail while in use. Really nothing wrong with Fram filters if you look at them while disregarding the name on the can (meaning unbiased).

If you would have made the same "they're lying" comment about some other filter brand with 95% @ 20 micron efficiency having the "better protection than OES" text on the box I still would have called you on it because you obviously don't understand what OES really means in this case, as proved by your repeated false comment about the TRD filter being OES.

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
.... Why don't you look up what supplier means and then call your boss at Fram and get the data. They don't have it is my guess. First admit you are a FramBoy, then find a 12 step detox program.

Since you cannot win the discussion, now you are name-calling and hurling insults. Typical behavior when someone is unable to back up his statements. Whether or not someone is a fan of a particular filter is irrelevant here.

As far as filtering efficiency goes, it is common knowledge on here that OES and OEM oil filters are cellulose media filters that are not known for having great efficiencies. FRAM EG and TG both have synthetic-blend media with high efficiencies (95% @ 20 microns and 99% @ 20 microns, respectively). Anyway, there is nothing to argue about because FRAM EG is 95% efficient @ 20 microns (and so are WIX/NAPA Gold oil filters), and any filter 95% or greater at 20 microns (that doesn't fail while in use) is good enough as far as I'm concerned.

 

[bbhero]

Very good post Tony10s. I like the regular Wix black filter and Fram EG.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Tony10s
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
.... Why don't you look up what supplier means and then call your boss at Fram and get the data. They don't have it is my guess. First admit you are a FramBoy, then find a 12 step detox program.

Since you cannot win the discussion, now you are name-calling and hurling insults. Typical behavior when someone is unable to back up his statements. Whether or not someone is a fan of a particular filter is irrelevant here.

As far as filtering efficiency goes, it is common knowledge on here that OES and OEM oil filters are cellulose media filters that are not known for having great efficiencies. FRAM EG and TG both have synthetic-blend media with high efficiencies (95% @ 20 microns and 99% @ 20 microns, respectively). Anyway, there is nothing to argue about because FRAM EG is 95% efficient @ 20 microns (and so are WIX/NAPA Gold oil filters), and any filter 95% or greater at 20 microns (that doesn't fail while in use) is good enough as far as I'm concerned.


Not any of your business, but mr. Fram has called me plenty of uncalled for names, all far worse than "FramBoy, which is actually more of a joke not an insult. I posted correct info. I have no need to "win." That's your buddy's territory. Actually you seem an awful lot like your buddy, interesting.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I posted correct info.

No you didn't, as I've already pointed out why. Now you're just back peddling and digging your own hole. I'm sure if that OES statement was on any other brand of filter box you'd believe it and not make some extreme claim that it was a lie.

 

[ZeeOSix]

And BTW, if you read the (*) statement carefully on the box associated with the OES statement then you might see where your lie claim derailed. Your lie claim would fail big time in court ... that wouldn't be a "goodtime".

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Tony10s
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
.... Why don't you look up what supplier means and then call your boss at Fram and get the data. They don't have it is my guess. First admit you are a FramBoy, then find a 12 step detox program.

Since you cannot win the discussion, now you are name-calling and hurling insults. Typical behavior when someone is unable to back up his statements. Whether or not someone is a fan of a particular filter is irrelevant here.

As far as filtering efficiency goes, it is common knowledge on here that OES and OEM oil filters are cellulose media filters that are not known for having great efficiencies. FRAM EG and TG both have synthetic-blend media with high efficiencies (95% @ 20 microns and 99% @ 20 microns, respectively). Anyway, there is nothing to argue about because FRAM EG is 95% efficient @ 20 microns (and so are WIX/NAPA Gold oil filters), and any filter 95% or greater at 20 microns (that doesn't fail while in use) is good enough as far as I'm concerned.

Not any of your business, but mr. Fram has called me plenty of uncalled for names, all far worse than "FramBoy, which is actually more of a joke not an insult. I posted correct info. I have no need to "win." That's your buddy's territory. Actually you seem an awful lot like your buddy, interesting.

Anything on BITOG is any member's "business." You're not the only member. And by stating that I seem to be like another member ... well that's just more typical behavior like I mentioned in my post. This thread has become pointless and has outlived its usefulness, all started because of the post that said that FRAM is lying on their box.
I will no longer be following this thread. You guys take care.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
How is it lying?

The omission of data you could have used to make an informed consumer decision rather they are counting on a new box and hype is an ethical Bovine Scat move!

That's not the definition of lying.


Well I guess it depends on how ethical you are they have the data and they could have put it on the box just like they used to. But I'm glad I don't have you count on you for your ethics.