New 6.6L Duramax
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I'll be in the market soon and usually buy Ford but I will check out the DM.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I'm actually surprised the numbers aren't a little higher. The new Powerstroke was announced at 440 and 925 in July. Usually the last to release numbers has the best numbers. Not that it matters at this point. GM, Ford and Ram all have more power than 95% of buyers will ever need.
http://www.tfltruck.com/2016/07/torque-wars-2017-ford-super-duty-goes-xxx-lb-ft-xxx-hp-official/
http://www.tfltruck.com/2016/07/torque-wars-2017-ford-super-duty-goes-xxx-lb-ft-xxx-hp-official/
How about an F350 with a Cummins 6.7 and Allison transmission? Or a Chev/GMC with a live front diff and round fenders instead of square ones?
With class 8 trucks you can pick the brand and the powertrain in some cases, or a glider with no engine or transmission, because emission laws apply to the engine and not the truck.
Is there really a horsepower race with light duty Diesel trucks, or is it an invention of the media?
Personally, I'm more interested in fuel economy, ease of maintenance and reliability. So when it takes 3 hours to change the headlight bulbs, I'm not very impressed with the overall truck design.
With class 8 trucks you can pick the brand and the powertrain in some cases, or a glider with no engine or transmission, because emission laws apply to the engine and not the truck.
Is there really a horsepower race with light duty Diesel trucks, or is it an invention of the media?
Personally, I'm more interested in fuel economy, ease of maintenance and reliability. So when it takes 3 hours to change the headlight bulbs, I'm not very impressed with the overall truck design.
Yeah, it would indeed be nice to be able to select engine, trans, and diff options like we can with big trucks. What the pickup OEM's offer, I have a hard time even being interested. I have no fondness for V diesels and their complexity. I prefer inlines. Cummins burned me on a couple of ISX's, so even though I had a fondness for the N-14, I loath Cummins at any size now. But I would take a longer look at a Cummins and Allison combination. Dodge just isn't trying in that regard. Allison provides transmissions across the entire spectrum and they could make a deal with them for an Allison behind that Cummins in the Ram. Allison may have started with GM, but they are a separate entity now. That pretty much leaves me out of the diesel pickup market, except the Colorado / Canyon with the little 2.8L diesel. For what that application is meant for, not a bad setup. The VM engine that little Dmax is based on was a solid platform.
While they crank up the power in their HP/Torque wars, it doesn't mean a lot if the vehicle itself can't really take advantage of it. The gross payloads and towing are pretty much the same. They can't up those really without moving pickups into another class, and then it gets more complex regarding commercial driver's licensing and such. Just a way to increase sales and pry more money from folks. And all of this HP and torque stuff will play with the crowd that confuses diesel with testosterone.
While they crank up the power in their HP/Torque wars, it doesn't mean a lot if the vehicle itself can't really take advantage of it. The gross payloads and towing are pretty much the same. They can't up those really without moving pickups into another class, and then it gets more complex regarding commercial driver's licensing and such. Just a way to increase sales and pry more money from folks. And all of this HP and torque stuff will play with the crowd that confuses diesel with testosterone.
Testosterone and Diesel engines;
I wonder if that would have the same affect on women locomotive engineers on the railroads and line-haul truck drivers in the oil patch, as steroids do in women body builders?
After all, a big lifted Diesel "bro-truck" that never sees a dirt road, can make up for a small package.
I wonder if that would have the same affect on women locomotive engineers on the railroads and line-haul truck drivers in the oil patch, as steroids do in women body builders?
After all, a big lifted Diesel "bro-truck" that never sees a dirt road, can make up for a small package.
As a European i really can't think who would need nearly 1000 lb/ft of torque
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
As a European i really can't think who would need nearly 1000 lb/ft of torque
Anyone towing heavy loads for many miles.
In the USA, much of the country does not have speed limits for trucks and/or trailers. Meaning, 70+mph can be the norm. In order to maintain high speed while going up hill, one needs "lots" of power. [Whether or not this is needed, or even wise, is a different story.]
Heck, POWER!!! can be nice even off the highway. Need to merge onto the highway during rush hour? Or just to get through a busy intersection? Sure, you might be the biggest vehicle, and others will move for you--but if you could just check off a box and then accelerate just like everyone else... why not?
As a European i really can't think who would need nearly 1000 lb/ft of torque
Anyone towing heavy loads for many miles.
In the USA, much of the country does not have speed limits for trucks and/or trailers. Meaning, 70+mph can be the norm. In order to maintain high speed while going up hill, one needs "lots" of power. [Whether or not this is needed, or even wise, is a different story.]
Heck, POWER!!! can be nice even off the highway. Need to merge onto the highway during rush hour? Or just to get through a busy intersection? Sure, you might be the biggest vehicle, and others will move for you--but if you could just check off a box and then accelerate just like everyone else... why not?
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
While they crank up the power in their HP/Torque wars, it doesn't mean a lot if the vehicle itself can't really take advantage of it. The gross payloads and towing are pretty much the same. They can't up those really without moving pickups into another class, and then it gets more complex regarding commercial driver's licensing and such. Just a way to increase sales and pry more money from folks. And all of this HP and torque stuff will play with the crowd that confuses diesel with testosterone.
For real?
I can think of at least 50 HotShot drivers and Marine Transporters who would disagree with this sentiment unequivocally.
As the owner of both diesel LDT's and MDT's, I can tell you that there is a LOT of business dollars and sense in getting the most out of an LDT, rather than moving up to an MDT.
For small operators, an LDT with kinds of capabilities available to them now is an absolute Godsend.
The road outside of my warehouse is continually clogged with tangible proof that these trucks are absolutely capable of everything that is advertised, and more.
While they crank up the power in their HP/Torque wars, it doesn't mean a lot if the vehicle itself can't really take advantage of it. The gross payloads and towing are pretty much the same. They can't up those really without moving pickups into another class, and then it gets more complex regarding commercial driver's licensing and such. Just a way to increase sales and pry more money from folks. And all of this HP and torque stuff will play with the crowd that confuses diesel with testosterone.
For real?
I can think of at least 50 HotShot drivers and Marine Transporters who would disagree with this sentiment unequivocally.
As the owner of both diesel LDT's and MDT's, I can tell you that there is a LOT of business dollars and sense in getting the most out of an LDT, rather than moving up to an MDT.
For small operators, an LDT with kinds of capabilities available to them now is an absolute Godsend.
The road outside of my warehouse is continually clogged with tangible proof that these trucks are absolutely capable of everything that is advertised, and more.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
For real?
I can think of at least 50 HotShot drivers and Marine Transporters who would disagree with this sentiment unequivocally.
As the owner of both diesel LDT's and MDT's, I can tell you that there is a LOT of business dollars and sense in getting the most out of an LDT, rather than moving up to an MDT.
For small operators, an LDT with kinds of capabilities available to them now is an absolute Godsend.
The road outside of my warehouse is continually clogged with tangible proof that these trucks are absolutely capable of everything that is advertised, and more.
Yes, for real. Those you mention are in the CDL game. Like I stated, it does little to crank up all the power and not have a chassis, suspension, and gearing to really take advantage of it. Especially for non commercial use. To do that puts it in another class, which is determined by weight, and anyone going over 10,001 lb GCWR commercially has to have a commercial driver's license and jump thru all the hoops like the rest of us commercial drivers.
Those guys that transport TT to the dealers from the plants, all required to have CDL's and keep log books. And I am not sure how cranking up the power even more really has an appreciable benefit. Just increases costs. Not like they are slowing to 25 mph on every little mole hill. After all, when one is doing this kind of thing, it is for business and numbers matter. The same diesels in these pickups is going into the class 4 and 5 offerings of the same OEM's, where it has greater overall effect. Now, GM has been out of that for a while but they are jumping back in.
For real?
I can think of at least 50 HotShot drivers and Marine Transporters who would disagree with this sentiment unequivocally.
As the owner of both diesel LDT's and MDT's, I can tell you that there is a LOT of business dollars and sense in getting the most out of an LDT, rather than moving up to an MDT.
For small operators, an LDT with kinds of capabilities available to them now is an absolute Godsend.
The road outside of my warehouse is continually clogged with tangible proof that these trucks are absolutely capable of everything that is advertised, and more.
Yes, for real. Those you mention are in the CDL game. Like I stated, it does little to crank up all the power and not have a chassis, suspension, and gearing to really take advantage of it. Especially for non commercial use. To do that puts it in another class, which is determined by weight, and anyone going over 10,001 lb GCWR commercially has to have a commercial driver's license and jump thru all the hoops like the rest of us commercial drivers.
Those guys that transport TT to the dealers from the plants, all required to have CDL's and keep log books. And I am not sure how cranking up the power even more really has an appreciable benefit. Just increases costs. Not like they are slowing to 25 mph on every little mole hill. After all, when one is doing this kind of thing, it is for business and numbers matter. The same diesels in these pickups is going into the class 4 and 5 offerings of the same OEM's, where it has greater overall effect. Now, GM has been out of that for a while but they are jumping back in.
I think GM's challenge in the medium truck market will be finding dealerships that want to add them to their product line. They are expensive, take up a lot of space and require a designated sales staff.
My guess is that their old customer base has moved on and are no longer brand loyal for the sake of being brand loyal.
Poking around I found these guys. Not just a truck, but a way home....
www.oshkoshdefense.com
My guess is that their old customer base has moved on and are no longer brand loyal for the sake of being brand loyal.
Poking around I found these guys. Not just a truck, but a way home....
www.oshkoshdefense.com
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Poking around I found these guys. Not just a truck, but a way home....
www.oshkoshdefense.com
Too bad they dont sell to the civilians
Poking around I found these guys. Not just a truck, but a way home....
www.oshkoshdefense.com
Too bad they dont sell to the civilians
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
How about an F350 with a Cummins 6.7 and Allison transmission? Or a Chev/GMC with a live front diff and round fenders instead of square ones?
The Duramax has been around long enough to EARN as good a reputation as the Cummins B-series has!
An Allison in a light duty Ford or Dodge from the factory will not happen. GM still owns right's to the Allison 1000 put in light duty trucks.
Besides...... The Ford 6R140 & Dodge Aisin AS68RC are very good units.
Front straight axles SUCK from a drivability/handling standpoint. GM IFS tie rod braces/adjusters & upgraded drag link are usually cheaper than what some Ford & Dodge owners spend chasing "Death Wobble" issues.
I was proud that GM kept the LML Duramax so long, The whole "Race to top" is idiotic.
How about an F350 with a Cummins 6.7 and Allison transmission? Or a Chev/GMC with a live front diff and round fenders instead of square ones?
The Duramax has been around long enough to EARN as good a reputation as the Cummins B-series has!
An Allison in a light duty Ford or Dodge from the factory will not happen. GM still owns right's to the Allison 1000 put in light duty trucks.
Besides...... The Ford 6R140 & Dodge Aisin AS68RC are very good units.
Front straight axles SUCK from a drivability/handling standpoint. GM IFS tie rod braces/adjusters & upgraded drag link are usually cheaper than what some Ford & Dodge owners spend chasing "Death Wobble" issues.
I was proud that GM kept the LML Duramax so long, The whole "Race to top" is idiotic.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Yes, for real. Those you mention are in the CDL game. Like I stated, it does little to crank up all the power and not have a chassis, suspension, and gearing to really take advantage of it. Especially for non commercial use. To do that puts it in another class, which is determined by weight, and anyone going over 10,001 lb GCWR commercially has to have a commercial driver's license and jump thru all the hoops like the rest of us commercial drivers.
Those guys that transport TT to the dealers from the plants, all required to have CDL's and keep log books. And I am not sure how cranking up the power even more really has an appreciable benefit. Just increases costs. Not like they are slowing to 25 mph on every little mole hill. After all, when one is doing this kind of thing, it is for business and numbers matter. The same diesels in these pickups is going into the class 4 and 5 offerings of the same OEM's, where it has greater overall effect. Now, GM has been out of that for a while but they are jumping back in.
Like I stated, the chassis does not seem to have any problem taking advantage of the power. The power is going to find its way to the road unless something shatters in between, and that is just not happening.
The power being turned up has a very appreciable benefit. Almost nobody likes being at the wheel of a truck that is being dogged down by its load. It's a matter of personal preference for sure, but obviously something that is preferred.
The people who complain about the increasing engine power are always people who don't own one of those trucks, and I've never seen anyone who did own one of those trucks shake their fist at the sky and proclaim, "Why did they give it so much power? The money is flying out of my wallet!".
I only used the commercial drivers as a clear example that the increased power in those trucks is clearly working, even under the test of business. Everyone else out there who is towing their own boat, cars, campers, fifth wheels, etc, are just as happy.
If anything, private use may be a greater test, because private individuals are far less likely to put up with a doggy truck than commercial drivers who are used to such a thing.
The power increase has 2 very simple, tangible benefits:
1. Haul more stuff
2. Haul it better
What exactly is so hard to see about how this is an improvement, when it can be scientifically measured?
Yes, for real. Those you mention are in the CDL game. Like I stated, it does little to crank up all the power and not have a chassis, suspension, and gearing to really take advantage of it. Especially for non commercial use. To do that puts it in another class, which is determined by weight, and anyone going over 10,001 lb GCWR commercially has to have a commercial driver's license and jump thru all the hoops like the rest of us commercial drivers.
Those guys that transport TT to the dealers from the plants, all required to have CDL's and keep log books. And I am not sure how cranking up the power even more really has an appreciable benefit. Just increases costs. Not like they are slowing to 25 mph on every little mole hill. After all, when one is doing this kind of thing, it is for business and numbers matter. The same diesels in these pickups is going into the class 4 and 5 offerings of the same OEM's, where it has greater overall effect. Now, GM has been out of that for a while but they are jumping back in.
Like I stated, the chassis does not seem to have any problem taking advantage of the power. The power is going to find its way to the road unless something shatters in between, and that is just not happening.
The power being turned up has a very appreciable benefit. Almost nobody likes being at the wheel of a truck that is being dogged down by its load. It's a matter of personal preference for sure, but obviously something that is preferred.
The people who complain about the increasing engine power are always people who don't own one of those trucks, and I've never seen anyone who did own one of those trucks shake their fist at the sky and proclaim, "Why did they give it so much power? The money is flying out of my wallet!".
I only used the commercial drivers as a clear example that the increased power in those trucks is clearly working, even under the test of business. Everyone else out there who is towing their own boat, cars, campers, fifth wheels, etc, are just as happy.
If anything, private use may be a greater test, because private individuals are far less likely to put up with a doggy truck than commercial drivers who are used to such a thing.
The power increase has 2 very simple, tangible benefits:
1. Haul more stuff
2. Haul it better
What exactly is so hard to see about how this is an improvement, when it can be scientifically measured?
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
How about an F350 with a Cummins 6.7 and Allison transmission? Or a Chev/GMC with a live front diff and round fenders instead of square ones?
The Duramax has been around long enough to EARN as good a reputation as the Cummins B-series has!
An Allison in a light duty Ford or Dodge from the factory will not happen. GM still owns right's to the Allison 1000 put in light duty trucks.
Besides...... The Ford 6R140 & Dodge Aisin AS68RC are very good units.
Front straight axles SUCK from a drivability/handling standpoint. GM IFS tie rod braces/adjusters & upgraded drag link are usually cheaper than what some Ford & Dodge owners spend chasing "Death Wobble" issues.
I was proud that GM kept the LML Duramax so long, The whole "Race to top" is idiotic.
The LML was maxed out at 765 ft*lbs of torque due to its relatively small rod bearing size. Now the L5P Duramax has much bigger bearings and a redesigned block and crank. The rod bearings now conform to standard diesel engine practice of having an angled big-end cap split line so that it can be installed through the cylinder. The increase in torque output was enabled by the bigger bearing.
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
How about an F350 with a Cummins 6.7 and Allison transmission? Or a Chev/GMC with a live front diff and round fenders instead of square ones?
The Duramax has been around long enough to EARN as good a reputation as the Cummins B-series has!
An Allison in a light duty Ford or Dodge from the factory will not happen. GM still owns right's to the Allison 1000 put in light duty trucks.
Besides...... The Ford 6R140 & Dodge Aisin AS68RC are very good units.
Front straight axles SUCK from a drivability/handling standpoint. GM IFS tie rod braces/adjusters & upgraded drag link are usually cheaper than what some Ford & Dodge owners spend chasing "Death Wobble" issues.
I was proud that GM kept the LML Duramax so long, The whole "Race to top" is idiotic.
The LML was maxed out at 765 ft*lbs of torque due to its relatively small rod bearing size. Now the L5P Duramax has much bigger bearings and a redesigned block and crank. The rod bearings now conform to standard diesel engine practice of having an angled big-end cap split line so that it can be installed through the cylinder. The increase in torque output was enabled by the bigger bearing.
I was suspect of LML design limitation when the power was increased from LBZ, and SAE30 and 10W30 were dropped in the 2011 owner's manual.
The only modifications I've done to mine, is remove the back seats and center consul, and I took a knife to the passenger side front inner fender to make fuel filter access easier.
When I change the oil, now I can reach up and drain the water out of the fuel filter housing in 2 minutes.
The only modifications I've done to mine, is remove the back seats and center consul, and I took a knife to the passenger side front inner fender to make fuel filter access easier.
When I change the oil, now I can reach up and drain the water out of the fuel filter housing in 2 minutes.
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Stock diesels still have a ways to go to catch up with modified trucks. My 2007 put down 687HP and 1266ftlbs....I think standard compound turbos are more realiable
I tow around 15,000 once a week, and can run any grade in AZ at 80mph if I want...
I tow around 15,000 once a week, and can run any grade in AZ at 80mph if I want...
Originally Posted By: FranklinJL
Stock diesels still have a ways to go to catch up with modified trucks. My 2007 put down 687HP and 1266ftlbs....I think standard compound turbos are more realiable
I tow around 15,000 once a week, and can run any grade in AZ at 80mph if I want...
Here's a test on a '07 5.9; notice the peak power they make (688hp) is the same as yours.
"To find out how well each turbo could control EGT across a wide range of engine speeds, a grueling towing scenario was simulated. This was done by measuring the truck’s maximum achievable horsepower output while staying at a predetermined limit of 1,200 degrees. After each test’s target engine speed was achieved, the dyno’s dynamic load cell braking was applied to hold rpm steady, and the accelerator was depressed until EGT stabilized at 1,200. Test speeds included 1,400, 1,700, 2,000, 2,300, 2,600, and 3,000 rpm for each turbo. Between each constant rpm test, the truck’s coolant temp was allowed to cool back down to 185 degrees to avoid cooling fan engagement (which can rob as much as 20 to 30 hp), and ambient air in the dyno cell was allowed to return to the temperature the test started at. Each test was concluded before coolant temp reached 205 degrees. This test was akin to towing a 15,000-pound trailer up a 4 percent grade."
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/expert-...s-turbocharger/
Stock diesels still have a ways to go to catch up with modified trucks. My 2007 put down 687HP and 1266ftlbs....I think standard compound turbos are more realiable
I tow around 15,000 once a week, and can run any grade in AZ at 80mph if I want...
Here's a test on a '07 5.9; notice the peak power they make (688hp) is the same as yours.
"To find out how well each turbo could control EGT across a wide range of engine speeds, a grueling towing scenario was simulated. This was done by measuring the truck’s maximum achievable horsepower output while staying at a predetermined limit of 1,200 degrees. After each test’s target engine speed was achieved, the dyno’s dynamic load cell braking was applied to hold rpm steady, and the accelerator was depressed until EGT stabilized at 1,200. Test speeds included 1,400, 1,700, 2,000, 2,300, 2,600, and 3,000 rpm for each turbo. Between each constant rpm test, the truck’s coolant temp was allowed to cool back down to 185 degrees to avoid cooling fan engagement (which can rob as much as 20 to 30 hp), and ambient air in the dyno cell was allowed to return to the temperature the test started at. Each test was concluded before coolant temp reached 205 degrees. This test was akin to towing a 15,000-pound trailer up a 4 percent grade."
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/expert-...s-turbocharger/
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