Never use Dex Cool!

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That makes sense... the silicate based anti-freezes have always let a green/brown/yellow snot of death in my cooling systems even though I drain the radiator every year.

The SuperTech OAT based 5-year anti-freeze seems to have remained crystal clear for 1 year in my 81 T-bird. What concerns me is that the T-bird's radiator is the old-style radiator with the metal radiator caps. There will be a section near the top that will have air interfacing with the radiator metal... Should I be worried?
 
If the coolant stays crystal clear I would not be concerned. If you want, try using G05 instead. It has a very small dose of silicate to provide some instant protection before the OAT is able to.

I have Dexcool in one car, and have for years. It works fine for me and I don't intend to change. The other came with G05 and I see no reason to change.
 
The problem is not with air interfacing with the coolant, it is with air against bare metal that should have had coolant against it.

The protection that OAT gives metal is more fragile than the protection given by phosphate or silicate.

So the vulnerability is from allowing the coolant to get low enough for some bare metal to be exposed to air inside the cooling system.

OAT's advantages include that it is much more stable overall than phosphate or silicate. That is it doesn't fall out or break down. Oat is also much cleaner.

OAT's disadvantage is that it doesn't protect against bare metal as well, either from getting too low or from cavatation.

Phosphate's disadvantage is that it doesn't play well with hard water.

Silicate's disadvantage is that it falls out of solution, sometimes in as little as 18 months. This is part of what makes silicate so messy.
 
quote:
Originally posted by metroplex:
The SuperTech OAT based 5-year anti-freeze seems to have remained crystal clear for 1 year in my 81 T-bird. What concerns me is that the T-bird's radiator is the old-style radiator with the metal radiator caps. There will be a section near the top that will have air interfacing with the radiator metal... Should I be worried?
Click to expand...
I don't believe so. I'm using the same extended life SuperTech formula in my '03 Sonata's cooling system. Saturday will be it's 2nd anniversary in use, the fluid is still free of cloudiness, and the visible core tubing in the radiator is still scale-free and corrosion-free bright metal. I've decided to allow this load to remain in service through a third year - with the cautionary to continue observing its condition closely. At the first sign of changes, though, out it comes. It will be changed no later than completion of its third year, regardless how prisitne it continues to appear. $6.88/gallon where I live is just too cheap to economize on. I have an aluminum radiator with plastic top and bottom tanks, but a conventional, 17 lb. pressurized metal radiator cap. The overflow transfers into a non-pressurized transluscent plastic bottle as the coolant heats, and vacuum draw at cooldown forces transfer of overflow back into the radiator. I do not believe once the internal air in the cooling system is purged after a changeout that there's any further air buildup unless the radiator cap is removed for inspection or other service, or if there's a leak or other fault in the cooling system.

I came across a bit of interesting information on Honeywell's Prestone website that extended life coolant gearheads may find interesting. I've gone ahead and quoted Prestone's pertinent commentary here about their yellow-jug Prestone All Makes/All Models 5/150 Antifreeze Coolant for anyone interested in Prestone's published comparisons/compatibility of this product to genuine licensed DEX-COOL®:

"Q. What is the shelf life of Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant?
A. If the product is still in the original sealed container then it has a shelf life of many years. If the product has been opened and has not been diluted with water then it also has a shelf life of many years."

"Prestone® Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant has been approved by General Motors under their DEX-COOL® specifications and is compatible with other DEX-COOL® approved coolants."

"Prestone® Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant meets or exceeds the following industry standards and specifications:

GM 6277M
Ford WSS-M97B44-D"

Note that the above comments were restricted to Prestone's yellow jug antifreeze, not its licensed DEX-COOL® product. While the above may not "square" with what another BITOGer relayed to us from casual telephone conversations, I tend to place more confidence in a company's officially stated performance assertions. I've also requested by email copies of Prestone's MSDS sheets for their yellow jug "All Makes/All Models 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant" and Prestone's silver-gray jug "Fully GM-Licensed DEX-COOL® 5/150 Antifreeze/Coolant" to verify whether there're any proportion differences in the otherwise identical active ingredients listings on the backs of the jugs.

[ August 28, 2006, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
I received the MSDS sheets (MSDS501.pdf for Prestone in the yellow jug, and MSDS410.pdf for Prestone GM licensed DEX-COOL in the silver-gray jug in case someone wants to verify my research, himself) by email. Not surprisingly both listed exactly the same ingredients in exactly the same proportions - what proportion figures were listed, anyway:

code:
SECTION 2: PRODUCT COMPONENTS



HAZARDOUS COMPONENTS CAS# PERCENT EXPOSURE LIMITS



Ethylene Glycol 107-21-1 80-95 None Established-OSHA PEL

(aerosol) 100 mg/m3 Ceiling ACGIH TLV



Diethylene Glycol 111-46-6 0-5 None Established

OSHA PEL, ACGIH TLV

Non-Hazardous Ingredients >1%

Water 7732-18-5

2-Ethyl Hexanoic Acid, Sodium Salt 19766-89-3

Neodacanoic Acid, Sodium Salt 31548-27-3
Click to expand...
The amount of corrosion inhibitor chemistry and water to maintain solubility of the sodium salts of the two organic acids that Prestone uses only amount to somewhat over 1% by volume in the concentrate. A gallon = 128 ounces. So, the total amount of water and corrosion inhibitor chemistry consists of somewhat over 1.28 ounces - not much wiggle room to achieve an "entirely different" formulation in Prestone's licensed silver-gray jug DEX-COOL vs. that of the company's yellow jug "regular" extended life product. In short, DEX-COOL haters would do well to avoid the widely available Prestone antifreezes at the normal retail level - one's a licensed DEX-COOL, and the other appears by all published accounts to be an alternate color dyed unlicensed dexclone. On the flip side, those who want DEX-COOL chemistry on the cheap, the stuff in the yellow jug will save you a couple of bucks at WalMart - and in WalMart's blue "SuperTech" jug, another buck, yet.
 
Ray,

To end this game of internet tennis, I'll continue to use Prestone or equivalent extended life coolants in ALL vehicles until I experience problems.

As for what they're made out of, I can honestly care less. But I still stand by my position that they are different products. While the ingredients and their percentage within the overall product may be the same with the two products, the actual strength of the ingredients may be different...even if they are contained in identical amounts. This is something that you nor I will ever know.
 
if there is a chemical listed in the msds in the same percentage as another msds, then they are the same provided the chemicals listed have the same CAS number. they list raw ingredients and their concentration in the product by density, usually grams/m^3. 500mL of CAS 19766-89-3 (2-EHA sodium) is not any 'stronger' than 1000mL of that same CAS. they are still the same strength, just different volumes. A concentration that makes up less than 1 percent of a total product leaves little room for variences of strenth (concentraion of said product in a given volume; dilution) in the product as a whole.

as to the purity of the chemicals, that could be argued, but were talking thousands of a percent.
 
quote:
Originally posted by: The Critic
I still stand by my position that they are different products. While the ingredients and their percentage within the overall product may be the same with the two products, the actual strength of the ingredients may be different...even if they are contained in identical amounts. [
gr_eek2.gif
] This is something that you nor I will ever know.
Click to expand...
Actually, I do know (and you should, too), since CAS #s carry with them defined purity and concentration as ChrisW already pointed out above. Have a nice day, Michael.
wink.gif


[ August 29, 2006, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
Btw, Ray, I wonder if the yellow bottle has some proprietary inhibitors that they are not listing on the back label.
wink.gif


Looks like either the guy didn't flush out the old coolant (and/or clean the system) or his radiator cap was toast.
 
People have to get over this DexCool thing. As long as your system stays sealed and you change it before 100k you should be fine. My Grand Prix had over 70k when I did the change and it was fine, just a little dark. There was no gunk whatsoever, even sticking to the inside of the radiator. I sold the car at 100k and it was perfect. Just my $.02.....
 
Is there some unpublished rule that says we have to forget we ever had this discussion and have someone come and start it up again every month or so? Please use the search feature before starting a topic like this. We've killed this horse 14 times.

With that out of the way, I begin my standard response to the Dex Cool issue: Every car I now own or service, with the exception of my wife's Civic and my sister's Integra, has been running Dex Cool, with no problems, for at least 160,000 miles. That's ... let's see ... 6 Dex Cooled cars. My Saturn now has 243,000 miles on three changes of the stuff. I replaced a water pump once, because the bearing went bad at about 150,000 miles or so, but that's it. My wife's Civic and my sister's Integra are the only cars that have seen significant cooling system problems. Both needed radiators within 5,000 miles of each other at approx. 155,000 miles. Even at that, I don't blame Honda's coolant for the failure.

So, don't like Dex Cool? Don't use it, and be happy. Want to convince me it's a problem? That's never going to happen. People claim there's some sort of pandemic of Dex Cool failures, and yet I keep going through life never seeing any. Kind of reminds me of everyone around me who has all these mysterious computer problems while all the computers I maintain seem to be fine. What conclusions am I to draw? I don't know, but I can only let my own experience guide me.
 
Since I came to the party late....

Dex works for me. The haters post this spam all over the net. It is a virus folks find easy to use when something goes wrong...

Intake gaskets...dex caused it...
Tire goes flat...dex caused it...
Motor locks up...dex caused it... (because intake gaskets weren't changed and sealing tabs were used)
laugh.gif

deadhorse.gif
 
Quote:

Here's some Dex Snot for you, it was used in a ten year old Ford. Maybe there were some other factors surronding this damage, I didn't own the car so I can't tell you how long it was in, if they topped it off, etc. But here's some pics of a long life antifreeze's gum or silicone snot.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000690

Click to expand...

I knew that Dex-Cool didn't have silicon, but was unaware they had been using silicone.....
grin.gif

My Jeep has, as I said earlier, had Prestone's Dex-Cool clone for 10 years and there's no gum, slime, or anything else in there, except coolant.
 
Quote:

Since I came to the party late....

Dex works for me. The haters post this spam all over the net. It is a virus folks find easy to use when something goes wrong...

Intake gaskets...dex caused it...
Tire goes flat...dex caused it...
Motor locks up...dex caused it...

Click to expand...


Um, Mr Buzzard sir, I don't think I accused Dex of causing any of these symptoms. Maybe your barber chipped a little of your temporal lobe your last buzzcut. I am talking about gelling issues and gelling issues only. The cooling system was in bad shape, lots of rust and air pockets I am sure. But something was making this system slimy, I am 1/2 sure they didn't use lake water to change the fluid when they changed it.
 
Ok since you just had to be an flap your gums prove your claim....

Why is it thousands of vehicle run dex and most have NO difficulty and the loonies like you it is all GM's fault... I'll tell you why, improper maintenance or none at all.

And get the name right or I will just have my way with you like the little jellyfish that you are... YOU WANT TO FLAME...Bring it boy..
nono.gif


Post proof or go away...
 
A loonie, hmmm such hostilty for someone who had Dex Cool damage and posted my experience about it. I don't doubt that most of the damage comes from poor maintanance. I'm someone who often buys older cars so I am at the mercy of the person I bought the car from. I have had two cars that were new and had Dex and I had no issues either, but my older vehicle had a serious slime problem. My theory is it came from mixing dex with old stuff and air= bad combo for my system.

However, even well maintained vehicles can have cooling system problems that can lead to rusting and air in the system. This could come from a defect or something we call wear and tear, perhaps you've heard of that. It's kinda like you can change your oil every 1k but after a few 100k you motor will still give, maintenance will have nothing to do with it.

Most products will have a down side to them, what's good for something is usually also bad for something else. It's a balancing act. Dex will last much longer than old stuff but when it goes bad for whatever reason, the consequence will be worse than if you used the older coolants IMO. Dex and it's clones have a lot of promise, but I think GM should invest in more research to address the issues that face Dex. For years they didn't do anything to the formula, but it appears they have a new one unless they just changed the color to red. Like I said, maybe the issues facing Dex can be corrected by the right cleaning additive, I will leave it at that.
 
Buzzcut and Shelby: Cool it with the personal attacks and name-calling.
 
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