Never thought I would say this bout oil

[1978elcamino]

what is AFE?

 

[tig1]

Cam pics on my 2007 Fusion with M1 0-20AFE at 195K at 10K OCIs.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4260025/1

 

[650NutKase]

Originally Posted by KevinP

It says on the bottle "Make your fuel economy Great Again". All your statistical mumbo jumbo is fake news!


Exactly...It's called ADVANCED Fuel Economy for a reason....PP is not advanced, its platinum.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by sixsix
In south Louisiana we only really have 2 seasons, hot with high humidity, and less hot with high humidity.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
what is AFE?


Advanced Fuel Economy


I don't believe Mobil 1 AFE is a "miracle worker" - I believe it helps, but 10% mileage increase? No Way.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Linctex
I don't believe Mobil 1 AFE is a "miracle worker" - I believe it helps, but 10% mileage increase? No Way.

ExxonMobil doesn't even come close to that number in their marketing materials for AFE.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by 1978elcamino
what is AFE?


Advanced Fuel Economy


I don't believe Mobil 1 AFE is a "miracle worker" - I believe it helps, but 10% mileage increase? No Way.



Total BS and I'd like to see some States Attorney Generals burn the place they sit for this kind of BS.

 

[Arctic388]

if anyone cares to analyze this data

mpg odometer miles fuelup_date
18.13 92902 381 6/20/2019
17.71 92521 343 6/17/2019
18.14 92178 356 6/14/2019
16.43 91822 209 6/11/2019
15.89 91613 336 6/6/2019
16.14 91277 323 5/30/2019
18.14 90954 319 5/24/2019
16.62 90635 291 5/21/2019
18.39 90344 182 5/19/2019
16.43 90162 295 5/17/2019
17.52 89867 362 5/12/2019
17.07 89505 144 5/9/2019
17.16 89361 337 5/6/2019
16.88 89024 374 5/2/2019
17.08 88650 356 4/26/2019
16.13 88294 337 4/20/2019
17.77 87957 253 4/16/2019
17.58 87704 270 4/13/2019
17.84 87434 375 4/10/2019
17.4 87059 348 4/5/2019
16.24 86711 346 4/1/2019
16.02 86365 325 3/25/2019
15.12 86040 296 3/20/2019
17.91 85744 336 3/15/2019
15.33 85408 300 3/9/2019
16.32 85108 349 3/4/2019
15.98 84759 323 2/27/2019
16.24 84436 289 2/20/2019
15.18 84147 148 2/17/2019
15.8 83999 320 2/15/2019
17.27 83679 344 2/12/2019
15.59 83335 223 2/10/2019
15.79 83112 326 2/8/2019
16.36 82786 328 2/4/2019
15.15 82458 179 1/30/2019
15.97 82279 304 1/27/2019
14.56 81975 307 1/22/2019
16.25 81668 325 1/16/2019
16.42 81343 350 1/10/2019
16.82 80993 324 1/2/2019
14.32 80669 127 12/31/2018
13.92 80542 125 12/29/2018
17.2 80417 266 12/27/2018
0 80151 110 12/26/2018
16.03 80041 305 12/24/2018
16.71 79736 335 12/19/2018
15.11 79401 324 12/14/2018
16.63 79077 331 12/5/2018
15.58 78746 278 11/30/2018
17.5 78468 350 11/24/2018
16.01 78118 345 11/18/2018
0 77773 0 11/14/2018
16.3 77463 337 11/8/2018
18.1 77126 375 10/31/2018
16.04 76751 340 10/26/2018
16.26 76411 263 10/20/2018
16.54 76148 319 10/16/2018
18.75 75829 375 10/11/2018
17.34 75454 372 10/7/2018
17.63 75082 322 10/3/2018
16.18 74760 324 9/27/2018
17.25 74436 378 9/22/2018
17.37 74058 362 9/14/2018
16.66 73696 344 9/8/2018
17.6 73352 371 9/2/2018
15.25 72981 282 8/26/2018
16.48 72699 325 8/19/2018
14.48 72374 299 8/13/2018
16.58 72075 328 8/9/2018
18.4 71747 368 8/3/2018
15.17 71379 316 7/30/2018
16.58 71063 208 7/28/2018
16.38 70855 333 7/25/2018
16.34 70522 260 7/21/2018
16.2 70262 324 7/17/2018
15.23 69938 335 7/12/2018
15.99 69603 294 7/8/2018
15.14 69309 327 7/4/2018
17.09 68982 380 6/28/2018
16.18 68602 341 6/22/2018
15.28 68261 323 6/16/2018
16.14 67938 310 6/12/2018
15.83 67628 342 6/7/2018
16.51 67286 291 6/3/2018
15.28 66995 331 5/28/2018
16.81 66664 310 5/24/2018
15.8 66354 322 5/19/2018
16.15 66032 323 5/13/2018
18.05 65709 361 5/9/2018
16.32 65348 359 5/3/2018
17.03 64989 373 4/27/2018
16.03 64616 330 4/20/2018
15.67 64286 303 4/14/2018
18.75 63983 375 4/11/2018
16.94 63608 373 4/5/2018
16.93 63235 332 3/31/2018
15.57 62903 302 3/24/2018
16.45 62601 179 3/22/2018
18.28 62422 227 3/20/2018
15.89 62195 339 3/19/2018
16.95 61856 339 3/14/2018
17.26 61517 366 3/6/2018
16.99 61151 334 3/1/2018
16.97 60817 367 2/22/2018
15.79 60450 327 2/17/2018
16.19 60123 341 2/11/2018
14.35 59782 290 2/2/2018
15.03 59492 314 1/28/2018
16.8 59178 336 1/21/2018
15.65 58842 313 1/10/2018
14.94 58529 319 1/4/2018
15.65 58210 315 12/30/2017
15.21 57895 299 12/26/2017
15.21 57596 289 12/19/2017
17.4 57307 348 12/15/2017
14.28 56959 275 12/9/2017
18.9 56684 378 12/2/2017
16.55 56306 324 11/25/2017
16.26 55982 292 11/19/2017
16.39 55690 343 11/15/2017
17.07 55347 310 11/8/2017
17.16 55037 349 11/2/2017
16.45 54688 334 10/27/2017
16.7 54354 316 10/21/2017
17.99 54038 239 10/14/2017
18.61 53799 376 10/9/2017
16.12 53423 359 10/5/2017
16.67 53064 323 9/28/2017
17.05 52741 341 9/25/2017
16.71 52400 342 9/19/2017
17.72 52058 352 9/12/2017
16.03 51706 312 9/7/2017
16.57 51394 284 9/1/2017
16.61 51110 348 8/27/2017
16.45 50762 320 8/23/2017
15.9 50442 330 8/20/2017
16.12 50112 330 8/15/2017
15.01 49782 302 8/10/2017
17.6 49480 352 8/4/2017
17.65 49128 333 7/28/2017
17.67 48795 401 7/21/2017
15.2 48394 176 7/21/2017
18.86 48218 376 7/17/2017
16.87 47842 79 7/17/2017
16.88 47763 380 7/14/2017
16.97 47383 327 7/4/2017
17.28 47056 344 6/27/2017
13.66 46712 269 6/17/2017
17.34 46443 331 6/10/2017
18.45 46112 369 6/4/2017
16.5 45743 341 5/25/2017
16.94 45402 360 5/19/2017
17.2 45042 348 5/14/2017
16.28 44694 337 5/9/2017
16.5 44357 379 5/4/2017
17.08 43978 354 4/27/2017
16.26 43624 335 4/22/2017
16.09 43289 331 4/16/2017
16.21 42958 268 4/9/2017
18.33 42690 346 4/6/2017
16.45 42344 335 4/3/2017
16.4 42009 291 3/29/2017
17.26 41718 395 3/23/2017
15.45 41323 293 3/15/2017
15.59 41030 352 3/10/2017
17.18 40678 365 3/3/2017
16.45 40313 261 2/28/2017
16.82 40052 255 2/25/2017
17.89 39797 351 2/20/2017
15.83 39446 285 2/17/2017
16.08 39161 354 2/11/2017
15.7 38807 333 2/4/2017
15.75 38474 312 1/31/2017
17.45 38162 362 1/24/2017
15.81 37800 354 1/17/2017
15.48 37446 312 1/11/2017
16.38 37134 330 1/1/2017
0 36804 0 12/25/2016
15.25 36004 284.3 12/14/2016
15.94 35719.7 280.7 12/5/2016
16.24 35439 300.5 11/30/2016
16.08 35138.5 192.5 11/26/2016
15.38 34946 329 11/21/2016
17.04 34617 285 11/13/2016
0 34332 192 11/10/2016
15.4 34140 289 11/6/2016
16.22 33851 287 11/2/2016
16.59 33564 321 10/28/2016
16.77 33243 363 10/22/2016
16.99 32880 307.5 10/17/2016
15.9 32572.5 261.5 10/14/2016
16.44 32311 297 10/11/2016
16.4 32014 311 10/10/2016
16.37 31703 320 10/4/2016
16.49 31383 336 9/27/2016
16.98 31047 200 9/20/2016
16.41 30847 318 9/16/2016
16.64 30529 327.3 9/11/2016
16.05 30201.7 339.7 9/9/2016
15.36 29862 334 9/1/2016
15.72 29528 318 8/27/2016
16.32 29210 364 8/22/2016
16.81 28846 339 8/14/2016
17.29 28507 334 8/9/2016
17.15 28173 359 8/4/2016
15.97 27814 324.7 7/30/2016
17.39 27489.3 389.3 7/25/2016
14.95 27100 310 7/19/2016
16.16 26790 289 7/15/2016
16.47 26501 337 7/9/2016
15.48 26164 351 7/3/2016
16.22 25813 284 6/29/2016
16.36 25529 329 6/24/2016
16.27 25200 358 6/19/2016
17.3 24842 351 6/13/2016
16.95 24491 347 6/7/2016
16.42 24144 357 6/1/2016
17.32 23787 337 5/28/2016
16.15 23450 280 5/24/2016
16.42 23170 372 5/18/2016
16.08 22798 333 5/10/2016
15.69 22465 367 5/7/2016
15.57 22098 311.6 4/30/2016
16.11 21786.4 350.4 4/26/2016
16.42 21436 322 4/18/2016
15.64 21114 323 4/13/2016
15.68 20791 324 4/7/2016
15.71 20467 307 4/1/2016
15.77 20160 338 3/29/2016
16.2 19822 344 3/21/2016
16.01 19478 215 3/16/2016
16.1 19263 302 3/9/2016
15.57 18961 319 3/3/2016
15.45 18642 293 2/27/2016
16.98 18349 379 2/22/2016
14.81 17970 274 2/17/2016
14.05 17696 175 2/10/2016
15.35 17521 273 2/7/2016
15.94 17248 282 2/3/2016
15.94 16966 353.8 1/27/2016
15.97 16612.2 102.2 1/23/2016
15.6 16510 142.7 1/21/2016
14.81 16367.3 291.9 1/19/2016
15.05 16075.4 297.4 1/14/2016
15.61 15778 183.5 1/9/2016
14.18 15594.5 306.8 1/6/2016
13.95 15287.7 154.7 1/4/2016
13.76 15133 303.8 1/2/2016
15.52 14829.2 241.3 1/2/2016
16.3 14587.9 316.6 12/29/2015
15.31 14271.3 323.3 12/21/2015
16.23 13948 300 12/17/2015
16.15 13648 344.2 12/13/2015
15.22 13303.8 315.5 12/8/2015
16.16 12988.3 286.1 12/1/2015
15.62 12702.2 338.2 11/24/2015
15.55 12364 291.1 11/20/2015
15.87 12072.9 330.1 11/15/2015
16.21 11742.8 268.8 11/10/2015
15.6 11474 329 11/3/2015
16.22 11145 284.8 10/29/2015
15.74 10860.2 339.6 10/25/2015
15.94 10520.6 296.2 10/19/2015
16.76 10224.4 354.4 10/14/2015
16.45 9870 341.2 10/11/2015
14.84 9528.8 211.8 10/8/2015
16.2 9317 315.6 10/4/2015
15.93 9001.4 100.3 10/4/2015
16.89 8901.1 376.1 10/2/2015
18.09 8525 410.6 9/24/2015
18.22 8114.4 349.5 9/17/2015
17.66 7764.9 312.8 9/14/2015
16.2 7452.1 342.1 9/8/2015
16.83 7110 332 9/4/2015
16.43 6778 313.1 8/29/2015
17.61 6464.9 388.9 8/24/2015
16.68 6076 389.4 8/17/2015
16.23 5686.6 353.6 8/8/2015
16.42 5333 371 8/4/2015
16.34 4962 365.5 7/30/2015
16.92 4596.5 358.8 7/22/2015
17.37 4237.7 387.7 7/17/2015
18.46 3850 371 7/9/2015
17.77 3479 385 7/6/2015
16.98 3094 379.8 7/2/2015
16.52 2714.2 371.2 6/26/2015
16.11 2343 361 6/19/2015
17.35 1982 282 6/13/2015
17.97 1700 377.8 6/9/2015
16.22 1322.2 321.2 6/3/2015
16.33 1001 332 5/29/2015
0 669 0 5/23/2015

with oil changes Mobil 1 0w20
5/20/15
10/27/15
1/19/16
4/28/16
8/2/16 added 5 oz z-max
8/5/16
12/16/16 added 5 oz z-max
1/9/17
5/25/17
switch to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
10/5/17
3/18/18
7/23/18
10/8/18 added 4 oz z-max
12/20/18
4/11/19

9/30/15 replaced factory goodyears with 275/65/18 Cooper Discoverer AT3's 8800 miles
12/20/18 repalced AT3's with AT3 4S's

this is raw data. i have not analyzed it. 2015 GMC Sierra 5.3 4x4

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by sixsix
In south Louisiana we only really have 2 seasons, hot with high humidity, and less hot with high humidity.

I once put a Thrush muffler sticker on my truck window and gained almost 10 hp!

 

[kschachn]

Your data while interesting, would only show variation in fuel economy but not attributable to any one variable. A long time ago I posted a link to an article that described the difficulty in determining real-world fuel consumption and essentially showed that unless a trained driver on closed track is being used within a very short time period there's no way it is consistent. Not only that, they found that even at the same gas station the energy content of gasoline varied about 4% so specialized test fuel must also be used (it gets even worse between summer and winter blends). It was impossible to get values that would stand up to a statistical analysis.

They described how the myriad of variables in everyday driving make any one variable indistinguishable in the noise. It's not good enough to measure something, you must also be able to attribute it to one isolated variable. Outside a laboratory it just can't be done.

 

[badduxx]

I'm not criticizing anyone else's approach to their vehicle or maintenance choices because it is their stuff and time. I will say I appreciate the folks who do this sort of data collection and analysis because it shows me how little any of this stuff matters even a little bit. I think the old cars that had a speedo odo and a fuel level gauge only were on to something. Too much data being presented means to much worry and over analysis.

 

[1978elcamino]

Mobil engineer... "Its our advanced micro lubricant proprietary formulation".

BITOG... Your crazy.

Me.... Entertained.

 

[Talent_Keyhole]

Originally Posted by Railrust
The things I've noticed that effect fuel economy are few, but weather is a big one with me. The colder it is, the worse my fuel economy gets. And if I use my heated seats or steering wheel, I can really see a difference...I can't average "good" fuel economy with those things on. AC too.

As far as oil goes...all I've noticed is some oils quiet the engine better than others, and some burn less oil than others. That's about it


Agree, the weather is a big factor on mileage, whether it be the temperature, precipitation, or wind conditions. Electrical and physical load on the engine does make a difference. I tried to do the same and kept records, and I found that the fuel shutoff at the pumps vary as much as one gallon or more, from pump to pump.

 

[Talent_Keyhole]

Originally Posted by KevinP
Originally Posted by dnewton3
What I can tell is that you have fallen victim to the typical noob approach to mathematical statistics. This is a perfect example of the perfect storm; too little understanding of statistics combined with too little data causing one to draw inaccurate conclusions.

To know how your fuel mileage would truly track with oil brand, you'll need 30 samples of your full-tank fill ups with brand X, then another 30 with brand Y. You have to know not only the average, but the variation with each product. You only have 9 sets (2017), 6 sets (2018), and 9 sets (2019). That's well short of the 30 needed for each. Without accurate knowledge of the standard deviation (variation) you cannot understand how much overlap there is. This is not unlike the concept I try to educate folks about in the UOA normalcy study I wrote.

Your data shows many things that would cause concern to a person practicing good statistics:
- there is far too little data to understand variation properly; a prime violation of any statistical process analysis
- there's a large amount of disparity in how many miles are exhibited between the max and min data collection points (2018 shows only 12 mile spread in total miles per sample, but 2017 and 2019 are up near 100; this means you didn't drive near-identical cycles per fill-up for all tests)
- your resolution of stated values violates the mantra of reporting within your gauge accuracy; a magnitude of 10:1 (one decimal place) is acceptable (if you measure to the tenth of a value, then you can only report to the whole number ... etc)
- you have no calorimeter data for the fuel loads; this is paramount to knowing an input that should be corrected for. while you cannot control it, you have to correct for it and without knowing it's value, your assumptions are based on false presumptions. If you use E10 gas, it does not mean it always has 10% ethanol. It only means it has a max limit of 10% ethanol. Therefore the fuel can vary from 0% to 10% ethanol and you have no idea of the true BTU energy in the fuel.
- you don't show any data for accounting for tire wear. A tire's circumference will wear away, altering the true distance for any measured cycle relative to the indicated miles driven; up to 4% of tire circumference can be easily accounted for with only 1/2" of tread wear.

In fact, that last point is critical in knowing. Do the math ...
Using a tire that starts out at 27" in diameter, and degrades 1" in circumference (1/2" wear in depth is radius; 2x for diameter), you'll loose about 4% in tire circumference. (I am ignoring the compression of weight on the tire radius). Doesn't seem like a lot, does it? OK, then take your average miles per fill up and subtract 4% of miles. In this case, we'll presume your fill up shows 470 miles traveled. But the REAL miles traveled will vary greatly. Examples:
1) new tire indicates 470.00 miles traveled; actual driven is 470.00 miles divided by 13.00 gallons = 36.2 mpg
2) worn tire indicates 470.00 miles traveled; actual driven is 451.00 miles divided by that same 13.00 gallons = 34.7 mpg
This represents the variation of using a tire from new condition down to 1/2" tread depth worn away. IF NOTHING ELSE CHANGED, YOUR MILEAGE WOULD VARY BY 1.5 MPG OVER TIME !!! Your indicated distance covered would make your mpg shift over time. Because your data is spread out over three years, we have zero idea of what condition the tires were in for any given fill-up.

My point is that there are so many inputs that you cannot accurately define your mpg down to a whole number, let alone hundredths; you've got too much missing info in terms of both magnitude and resolution. You cannot claim that you know what your true economy is using one brand of motor oil relative to another. Your data is incomplete and your methodology ignores very important key inputs that need to be understood.




It says on the bottle "Make your fuel economy Great Again". All your statistical mumbo jumbo is fake news!


Disagree, not statistical mumbo jumbo, it is reality. I have done something similar and tried to limit or eliminate as many variables as I could. Although the results are compelling to me in my situation, there are variables outside of my control, that could realistically influence the outcome. I will post it soon.

 

[tiger862]

I do a 5k average fuel mileage when I buy a vehicle as this gives me a good number to keep in mind. I am retired so driving changes daily so no way would I use tank to tank. I will say if driving same route at night with little traffic for couple of years you have a good idea about your car so saying that I would have made the switch back to Mobil1.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by Railrust
The things I've noticed that effect fuel economy are few, but weather is a big one with me. The colder it is, the worse my fuel economy gets. And if I use my heated seats or steering wheel, I can really see a difference...I can't average "good" fuel economy with those things on. AC too.

As far as oil goes...all I've noticed is some oils quiet the engine better than others, and some burn less oil than others. That's about it


Agree, the weather is a big factor on mileage, whether it be the temperature, precipitation, or wind conditions. Electrical and physical load on the engine does make a difference. I tried to do the same and kept records, and I found that the fuel shutoff at the pumps vary as much as one gallon or more, from pump to pump.




I see no difference in fuel economy using the air conditioning or heated seats or wheel. I do see slightly less economy in the winter but then again it has been discussed a great deal that winter blend gasoline reduces fuel economy slightly.

All this will vary in different vehicles so one statement doesn't apply across the board.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Your data while interesting, would only show variation in fuel economy but not attributable to any one variable. A long time ago I posted a link to an article that described the difficulty in determining real-world fuel consumption and essentially showed that unless a trained driver on closed track is being used within a very short time period there's no way it is consistent. Not only that, they found that even at the same gas station the energy content of gasoline varied about 4% so specialized test fuel must also be used (it gets even worse between summer and winter blends). It was impossible to get values that would stand up to a statistical analysis.

They described how the myriad of variables in everyday driving make any one variable indistinguishable in the noise. It's not good enough to measure something, you must also be able to attribute it to one isolated variable. Outside a laboratory it just can't be done.

Everything you say is true. I log every gallon on fuel I buy. When I see a sudden drop in mpg, say 2 mpg, then I know I need to see if something is amiss, brakes dragging, fuel injector, spark plugs, etc. And, I do see trends in mpg with different oils, fuel, climate, tire pressure, etc.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by sloinker
Maybe a prankster is siphoning and adding gas just to mess with your calibrated/ocd nature. Add a quart every day for 3 months. Siphon a quart every day for 3 months and sit back and watch the concern and premature aging that happens to you?


I once noticed better economy after a haircut so there's that...🤔 (*waits for someone to spend the next hour writing a dissertation on how that's not possible ...‚)

Originally Posted by KevinP
It says on the bottle "Make your fuel economy Great Again". All your statistical mumbo jumbo is fake news!


Well, we are living in the "post truth" era sooooo....🤔

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by sloinker
Maybe a prankster is siphoning and adding gas just to mess with your calibrated/ocd nature. Add a quart every day for 3 months. Siphon a quart every day for 3 months and sit back and watch the concern and premature aging that happens to you?


I once noticed better economy after a haircut so there's that...🤔 (*waits for someone to spend the next hour writing a dissertation on how that's not possible ...‚)

Originally Posted by KevinP
It says on the bottle "Make your fuel economy Great Again". All your statistical mumbo jumbo is fake news!


Well, we are living in the "post truth" era sooooo....🤔




Only in your head.

 

[sixsix]

Man, some of you guys are way too smart for me. I never claimed to be a math engineer or a statistical genius, just some [censored] that likes to track his fuel mileage. Thought I might have been on to something, guess not. Oh well, I'm going crawl back in my hole now.