Neutra and gas mileage BOTTOMED out..Help!

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If it was me, I'd get your sales rep to work with you on finding out the problem. IMO, having been using Schaeffers for over 8 yrs now, having sold more than you can imagine to many over the last 4yrs and being told stories many times over about neutra among other products, let me congratulate you as you are the FIRST to ever have a bout with neutra that has caused you over 50% fuel mileage drop. There's no way any fuel additive that could come close to that.

You can look at each item, consider what if anything that can cause this... my first thought is 50% drop? GAS.. Second thought, maybe you have crap in your tank that neutra helped clean thus maybe cloging your FILTER?. Then, lets see, oil? nope, never happen, so it's down to bad gas, filter or neutra, oh and possible theft. Well, neutra as you pointed out seems to have helped the running, that can't happen if the fuel mileage has gone down. Your engine, if running as good or better than before, cannot in no way lose over 50% of it's fuel mileage even with bad gas or additive. Either you've had fuel stolen, at work maybe? or maybe somewhere you park for some extended times while shoping? no idea, but it is impossible to have anything drop your mileage like that without some performance or other obvious problem. Just isn't going to happen.

If you were to fill back up, and drive it, and this mileage proble just goes away, then your problem was most likely fuel stolen while out in the open. If the problem persist's after refueling, then you have a mechanical problem.

Sorry A. but I am interested in knowing what has happen but I can assure you there's now way possible that any additive could cause this problem. I don't believe bad gas could either. I don't believe filter could. I do see how a clogged cat converter could but that would show up as poor performance. Also, forgot, I've seen where rust in a tank can spring really small fuel leaks in the tanks, especially if you live or drive over a gravel road where rocks get kicked up.

Another thing, if you really do come to the conclusion that 131 caused you any problems, document all of it, and your rep can put in a claim to schaeffers just for your info.
 
I agree Bob. I can't believe that a few ounces of a product would cause this, no possible way. I can't explain it otherwise. I can say with 100% certainty, that no fuel has been stolen. Wouldn't it be odd that two vehicles locked in a garage at night, 30 miles apart during the work day, are having fuel stolen in the exact same ratio?

My wifes van has a locking cap, besides she can see her van from her office window. The van sits no more than 30 feet from her. As for the truck, I am never really away from it for more than 10 minutes at a time. When I am, it is generally in sight. Plus, I tried one time to siphon gas from the truck for someone that was out on the highway. The neck has a screen, you can't pass a hose down the neck into the tank. I even tries a quarter inch hose.

Finally and I hope you all understand this after saying it so many times, I never said Neutra was the certain cause. Just speculation. If it were only one vehicle, I would never have questioned it but come on, 2+2 does equal 4.
 
I totally understand and can appreciate your situation. Question... since you've used so much gas already, I can only assume you have refilled and is it still dropping the fuel that fast on a new tank? Hopefully you'd taken it to another place to refill just to make sure.
 
quote:

Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
I totally understand and can appreciate your situation. Question... since you've used so much gas already, I can only assume you have refilled and is it still dropping the fuel that fast on a new tank? Hopefully you'd taken it to another place to refill just to make sure.

Yep, it's entirely possible the pumps at the gas station are screwy too. If he filled both cars up at the same place this would make sense.

I can't see Neutra doing this, I've seen a slight boost in MPG in both my cars since I started using it (about 0.5 MPG higher I'd say)
 
My wife has put more gas into her van, I think she hit a Phillips station on the way home. As for the truck, no. I took time off this week so haven't driven as much. I looked yesterday and still had a bit over a quarter tank left, it was at 100 and some miles. I think 121, can't recall exactly.

I am going to let the truck run to almost empty before I refuel. I want to get as much of the old gas out as I can. There is a Conoco not too far from me, I may try that and I am also going down to the middle of the octane rating.
 
OK, the one thing that I noticed from the start is, why are you using 89 or 93 gasoline in either of these vehicles? Both are low-compression engines which as far as Im concerned, have now need whatsoever for anything over 87 octane. I doubt either of your engines have spark advance systems to set the spark and fuel timing forward or back a bit depending upon gas. So, essentially, youre putting fuel in there that is hesitant to burn (Octane = resistance to ignition, the higher, the more resistant).
I have read that using higher octane fuels in low compresion 87 octane engines at any time unless they are eseverely knocking can cause this unburned fuel to deposit itself at various points through the engine and emissions system. I also have read that the unburned deposits can harm the catalyst surface, and then it doesnt do its job properly and cause the rotten egg smell from the fuel's sulfur content.

That being so, I have to wonder if Neutra either caused some of this stuff to burn of, and that high heat damaged sensors, etc or it caused junk to clog something. Something like that.
 
quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:

I have read that using higher octane fuels in low compresion 87 octane engines at any time unless they are eseverely knocking
[/QB]

Well, maybe because they were knocking? As I stated during this thread, that is why I went to higher octane.
 
What kind of mileage did the van get on the 1st couple of tanks with Neutra? Sounds like the second engine has problems too? Knocking/clattering

[ June 28, 2003, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: springnr ]
 
well if they were knocking, then you hadan existing problem already... Sounds like neutra is catalyzing the carbon deposits that absorb gasoline and hold it, causing the knocking sound. Hopefully after doing some strong neutra doses, itll clean up and you wont need higher octane.

Cars not designed for it shouldnt have to use higheer octane, period. Otherwise there is another underlying preexisting problem that should be fixed.
Look for mechanical/fouling problems, not neutra... IMHO

JMH
 
quote:

Originally posted by springnr:
What kind of mileage did the van get on the 1st couple of tanks with Neutra?

This was the first tank with Neutra for the van. The tank before the Neutra, she ran 600+ miles before she put gas in again (when the low fuel light came on.) The next tank, with Neutra, she got about 390 miles when the low fuel light came on.

She filled up today at a Phillips 66 station on the other side of town, just because tha is where she happened to be, not as a test. She did get 87 octane though. We will see in the coming week if this made a difference. No Neutra and a different brand of gas.
 
quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
well if they were knocking, then you hadan existing problem already... Sounds like neutra is catalyzing the carbon deposits that absorb gasoline and hold it, causing the knocking sound. Hopefully after doing some strong neutra doses, itll clean up and you wont need higher octane.
IMHO

JMH


I don't plan on using the high octane on the next fill. I'll see how it does at 87 again, also without the Neutra. It certainly can't be much worse. I am going to reserve judgement on the Neutra. I actually planned on dumping some in my crank case right before my next oil change. I haven't really decided against that yet.
 
I'm interested in what the octane effect of neutra is on fuel.

It's seemed strange to me that the same esters are advocated for fuel systems AND engine sumps.

It would have to be lowering the octane rating some wouldn't it ?

(Only asking because in my misspent youth, I dropped about a cup of 90 weight gear oil in a 10 gallon tank of gasoline, and had to retard the spark so badly that performance and mileage realy suffered badly - don't ask WHY I did this - I just did)
 
Neutra has no effect on octane. it is not an octane booster of any sort.

One other observation A., do not allow your tank to drop under 1/8th empty as this will alow garbage on the bottom of your tank to suck up and cause you mechanical problems. It's always best to fill within the 1/4 mark range so not to have bottom garbage getting into your system.
 
Bob, surely it can't have nil effect on the octane rating of the fuel.

So you're saying that it has an equivalent octane in the high 80s ?
 
A.Guy,

Do you still have the Neutra bottle?...probably already tossed it, eh?

My guess is either that you were sold a bottle of Neutra #192 for diesels, or more likely, got a tank of really bad gas...shipped in a tank truck with residue of another product, or mucho water, or some other gasoline problem.


Ken
 
I still have the bottle, I bought 8 the first time. It doesn't tell me what number it is though.
 
quote:

It's seemed strange to me that the same esters are advocated for fuel systems AND engine sumps.

Not really. In the crankcase it acts as an ester based cleaner as esters will do.

During combustion, the components decompose into cresyl acid and alcohol to clean the combustion chamber.
 
quote:

Originally posted by A. Guy:
I still have the bottle, I bought 8 the first time. It doesn't tell me what number it is though.

You're right, no number. On the front and back labels you see, "Gas or Diesel...." If it doesn't say Gas Engines, you were sold the wrong stuff. If it does say Gas, then you were sold a tank of terrible gasoline.

I've been using Neutra in my lawn mower gasoline, 1 oz. per gallon. In the past I could never mow twice without refilling. Now I get just over two mowings on a tank, and no more oil smoke when starting the engine, due to the 1/2 oz. (1 tablespoon) of Neutra in the crankcase oil for 20 hours.

By the way, you've been using Shell gas for a long time. Texaco and Shell had a joint venture for several years where they shared refining and marketing under the name of Equillon, with either Texaco or Shell labels on the pumps. When Chevron recently bought Texaco, Shell retained the right to use the Texaco label on the pumps until 2004. Shell is in the process of rebranding the old Texaco stations. Shell's current joint venture is with Saudi Refining and named Motiva--again they're sharing U.S. refineries that belong to both companies and sharing marketing.


Ken
 
5.7 miles per gallon? Sounds like someone gas was drained from the tank. I doubt it would run well running that rich and not set off the service engine light.

I put neutra in my 01 F-150 5.4 and the gas milage went up. It's the only thing I've done that has changed my milage to the point that I could see the difference. Still, it was less than 1 mpg.

The o2 sensor will set off the service engine light when it goes. I just had one replaced.
 
Well, it does say "for gas or diesel engines" on the label. Therefore, it appears to be the right one.
 
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