Negative rear camber, diagnosis and solution?

[Servus]

Greetings, I own a 1998 VW GTI VR6 with 70k. I recently had new tires installed and the shop told me the rear negative camber is between -3° to -5° and should be at -1°. To date, I have the possible causes listed as: *Bent rear suspension component or hub *Rear bushings are bad *Springs are sagging I inspected the rear suspension and to the best of my knowledge, nothing looks bent or damaged. The car has not been in an accident. The bushing looks fine, but I do not know what a good one looks like. I hope one of you have experience with VW Golf III suspensions and can help me diagnosis this problem. So far I cannot come to a conclusion. Servus [ April 30, 2004, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Servus ]

 

[ikarus1]

I'd have it checked again if all possible. I have seen some bozo's running an alignment machine. Last align I had, the guys didn't check the tire pressure in the tires and all of these were WAY off spec due to the fact I just had tires mounted and I forgot to check the pressure. This will throw your alignment off with low profiles.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Yeah sounds like they don't know what they are doing... 3-5 degrees? They should be able to tell you EXACT camber within a TENTH of a degree. Are the insides of your tires wearing out excessively? Can you visually see the camber? With 5degrees it will be obvious. If neither I would not worry about it.

 

[T-Keith]

I believe this is a "twist-beam" style non-independent suspension. If so there won't be any adjustment, so there's not much you can do other than replace parts. Most places will do an alignment check for free. I'd get a second opinion. -T

 

[Servus]

ikarus1 - Indeed the shop told me to run no less than 35psi in each tire due to the low profile tires (205/50 ZR15). The spec says 31/27 front and rear respectively. Jason - They only estimated the amount of negative camber by looking at the wheels at eye level while the car was sitting on the rack. No scientific, I know. The original tires at 61k showed more wear on the outside (the front needs an alignment) than on the inside. Not significant for 61k. The camber is visible however.

 

[labman]

Get a good 4 wheel alignment. Good luck, my local Firestone is good, but elsewhere? The print out should list caster and camber as it exists, and specs. Then go to NAPA and ask for a rear wheel shim. Take that home and send the wife and kids to the movies or something. Crate the dog, disconnect the phone, and turn off the TV. Set down and carefully read all the directions. Read through them again. Carefully turn the 2 layers until they match the points on the graph for your correction. Yank the backing plate off the hub or hubs, pop the shim on, put the backing plate back on and torque to spec. Have a beer, maybe several. I had to do this with my Grand Am. $13 for 2 tapering layers of plastic and the directions. A couple hours and the unadjustable rear suspension was in spec. The other side was close enough I left well enough alone.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

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Originally posted by Servus: ... Jason - They only estimated the amount of negative camber by looking at the wheels at eye level while the car was sitting on the rack. No scientific, I know. The original tires at 61k showed more wear on the outside (the front needs an alignment) than on the inside. Not significant for 61k. The camber is visible however.

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If the inside of the tire is not wearing out, you do not have excessive negative camber. Simple as that. Unless you also had excessive toe-in to create outer wear faster than the inside wear!!! In which case you tires would have never made it to 60k miles!! 1-2degrees is visible to the naked eye as well. I only mentioned 5deg because it would be so obvious, it would look totally ridiculous. Maybe they are used to looking at cars with zero camber.

 

[carrera79]

first off, nice car. Second, it it's even on both sides, they're wrong. That rear suspension does not have any camber gain characteristics under compression, so you shouldn't have an issue. Now, here is what you need to do. 1. Get a quaife diff 2. get some stiffer springs and some bilstein sports 3. remove the front swaybar, or get a stiffer rear bar and leave the front alone. I had a '95 VR6 jetta, and I loved that car. It was sooooooo much fun with the quaife.

 

[porterdog]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith: I believe this is a "twist-beam" style non-independent suspension. If so there won't be any adjustment

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I think that's right, too. If it's even and the shop is right, that'd be really strange since it could only arise from damage. Unless the previous owner torched the arms to get more?!

 

[Servus]

I had the alignment done today and as I expected the front toe was off a bit and the rear camber was within specifications. The only thing I can think of was after the tires were mounted the tire pressure was at 35 all around and according to the MFR should be 31 / 27 front and rear respectively. Perhaps this had a negative effect on the camber? Does not matter now, it is fixed. Thanks to all of you, again!

 

[T-Keith]

Unless your running afermarket tire sizes or racing, I would run the tires at the spec listed on the door, not the tire. The tire usually shows the MAX psi for reference only. -T

 

[Servus]

T-Keith, I am running the stock tire size but a high performance summer tire. I lowered the tire pressure to the MFR recommendations. No reason to run 35psi in each tire, at least not for my application, daily driver! Thanks