Need the truth about oil and additives please

waldo1 · Sep 25, 2003

Hello,

I currantly use valvoline 5w 30 in my buick skylark 3.1 v6. It has nearing 100,000 on it but its still really reliable [work car]. Anyway everytime i go for oil at my local autoparts i am told something differant. This oil is bad or this additive will protect this and that. What gives?

hear is what i would like to know if you would be so kind to help out a guy with a bit of car knowledge but not a pro by any means.

1. what is a good oil to use in this engine with that many miles. [if not valvoline 5w 30 half synthedic]

2. what is the best oil filter for this car? [i currantly use fram sure grip]

3 is there an oil additive that is worth putting in ? [i keep hearing engine restore is great and can restore some lost power] And what will it do for my car?

4. Air filter, i live in the country so i have a few dirt roads to go down. what is a good filter [ i currantly use fram]

thank you all for the help and i do appreciate it allot. Please keep in mind i have limited knowledge about oils and filters so if you could be secific it would help a newbie like myself

[ September 25, 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: waldo1 ]

sbc350gearhead · Sep 25, 2003

Chevron supreme or Pennzoil for the oil. Try supertech or STP for the oil filters. Fram might make OK air filters, I don't know.

Stay away from the OTC oil additives.

Scott P · Sep 25, 2003

I would shy away from the Fram Oil Filters. you'll get this advice from most members here. A few searches will help explain that one. Regular and Regular/Synthetic 5-30 oil thins out pretty quickly. However, this isn't a problem if you change every three thousand miles or so. I would go with a Valvoline Max Life oil in 10W-30 unless you live in colder temps where the 5W-30 would be a benefit. This oil looks like it performs well at a reasonable price. You could also switch to Mobil 1 or Amsoil if you wanted extended drains and additional protection.

I would use a Wix or Napa Gold oil filter. They work very well and are reasonably priced.

I would also order and Auto-Rx package to clean your engine out. It is the only thing other than oil that I add to my cranckcase. Do not use any other over the shelf Restore-type products.

Fram makes a very good paper air filter. I would stick with that.

In the time it took me to type this, I'm sure you've heard this same thing before. I am a relative mewbie to oil as well, so my opinion may vary.

csandste · Sep 25, 2003

1. Most posters here would prefer Chevron/Havoline or Pennzoil to Valvoline. Supposedly they have better additive packs. There are very few used oil analyses for Valvoline on these boards and I'm not convinced the oil is that bad. Why don't you do an UOA and see how things are working. Most here dismiss synthetic blends since the synthetic portion is about 5-10% not one half as you state. Again, I'm not convinced, some semi-syns seem to do quite well. You might look at higher mileage oils as things age.

2. As far as oil filters, most would say anything but Fram. Champion Labs makes some pretty good filters for the money, especially WallyWorld's SuperTech.

3.Most additives, including Restore, are dismissed here. I think Restore is kind of an interesting approach to a badly worn engine. Not sure how its use would affect UOA's. Probably by driving copper, silver and lead counts sky high.

4. I never thought selection of air filters was that important, but I'm sure others would disagree.

Mystic · Sep 25, 2003

I am no expert but according to the VOAs and UOAs that people have done at this web site, Chevron Supreme, Pennzoil, and Castrol all look like good conventional motor oils. When I switched from Valvoline to Chevron my car seemed to run better (personal opinion). Perhaps there is very little difference between most conventional motor oils as long as they meet the requirements (currently for gasoline engines, SL, API starburst symbol, and correct SAE viscosity for your engine). One thing I like about Quaker State is that the year of manufacture is listed on the bottle and you at least know that you are getting reasonably fresh oil. You can check the VOAs and UOAs for various oils by doing a search in the sections for VOA and UOA.

There seems to be a lot of argument here about synthetic oils and which may or may not be the best. My guess is that a person could not go far wrong by just using Mobil 1 of the correct viscosity.

Personally I don't believe in 99.9% of over the counter oil supplements and engine treatments. Not too long ago an oil supplement was tested by people here and it was basically nothing but heavy mineral oil with a small amount of chemical additives. The one oil additive that I do believe in is Auto-RX. I tried it myself and it seemed to work for me, and lots of other people here have tried it and it seemed to work for them. Lube Control and Fuel Power are also used by lots of people here. Another fuel system detergent that I believe in is Chevron Techron. Techron is already used in Chevron gasoline-it should work, right? Neutra probably will not be available to a lot of us in the future because of new regulations.

If there is something wrong with a car or truck engine, oil supplements and engine treatments are not going to make much difference. You have to repair the problem. But even in cars and trucks that are running well, I think it pays to keep the fuel system and engine internals clean.

Another thing I don't believe in is engine flushes. Auto-RX cleans an engine pretty well I think. And two or three engine oil changes in a day would probably work as well as a lot of these engine flushes, and would be safer also.

Mystic · Sep 25, 2003

You also asked about oil filters and air filters. There is considerable argument here about the best oil filters to use. I recently came across information that a truly effiicient oil filter can potentially reduce engine wear by 70%. I don't know what the brand of oil filter was that could do this-perhaps Donaldson or Mobil 1.

All of this has become kind of unimportant to me because when I bought a new car it does not have an oil filter. It has an oil filter element that is replaced. The oil filter element is made in France and I would guess that it is reasonably high in quality. Perhaps in the future when these oil filter elements become more commonplace, there will be super quality replacements available.

I think there is probably a difference in quality of air filters. There has been some information presented at this web site that Baldwin air filters are really good. I have also seen information that Fleetguard air filters are really good. I think the paper air filters are probably better then foam and oiled air filters.

edpoj · Sep 25, 2003

The oil that is recommended on this site from what I have read is Chevron and Penzoil. I have a Sunfire with 114000 miles on it and I will be changing it soon with Penzoil High Mileage Oil. then wait for the spring do a UOA and run then Auto Rx.

Synthetic oils are expensive but dont require a 3000 mile change. Most go past 5000 to 6000 or more depending on the oil. Good synthetics talked about are Mobile 1, Amsoil, Schaffers, redline and the German Castrol.

The as seen on TV additives may do more damage than help. The only additive that is recommended by most of here is auto rx, which is a treatment that works quite well to clean out your engine in a 750 mile treatment. (goto www.autorx.com to learn more)

Oil Filters:

from all of the posts that I have read recommend anything but Fram oil filters. The favorites are Bosch premium, Napa Gold, Puralator Pureone, K&N, Mobile 1, and also the more "Bang for the buck" filter is the SuperTech from walmart,that doesnt usuallly cost more than 2.50. I prefer to go with the Bosch because its a relatively easy to find at my auto zone and for 5.49 its in the middle of the road of pricing and well constructed.

Air Filters:

Napa gold and Purolator are good for 15,000 to 20,000 . The Fram IMHO are ok for a short period of time like 10000 miles or so but not more.

Well thats my 2 cents. I hope the long time members will give me a good grade on my thesis

. I think that I have learned more than I could about oil, filters on this site to help me make my wise choice to keep my vehicles around in the long run.

Remember to use the search.You will literally spend hours soaking up info that will best suit your vehicle(s)

Mystic · Sep 25, 2003

As far as I can tell, this is the best site on the internet for information about motor oils and oil filters, etc. Explore this site and before too long you will have information overload. After I discovered this site I switched from Valvoline to Chevron motor oil, because of all the good VOAs and UOAs for Chevron. My car seemed to run better. No offense to Valvoline or anything-that was just my experience. Perhaps it makes little difference what brand of conventional motor oil you use if you are doing 3000 mile oil changes and as long as the motor oil meets all requirements and os of the correct viscosity.

I tried Auto-RX after discovering this site and it really does seem to work. It is nice finding stuff that really works.

ToyotaNSaturn · Sep 25, 2003

First off....WELCOME to the board!

Best oil: I second Mystic's findings on Chevron Supreme. For $1.08/qt, it's hard to beat. Mobil1 is great for $18.88 at wal-mart. I just bought Pennzoil yesterday ( I couldn't help myself!) There's alot of positive feedback on their oils, too.

Oil Filter: WalMart's Supertech. I think these are the equivalent of AC Delco mid-grade filters. (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong) For $1.99 you can't go wrong. There's a good amount more filter area than Fram filters (stay away from Fram, mediocre construction, minimal filter area, etc AND they're more expensive than SuperTechs!)

Additives: Schaeffer's Neutra. It cleaned out my Saturn and my sludge-prone Toyota Sienna V6. It is a great additive that slowly works away junk in the engine. Unlike engine flushes that can easily break off big chunks and can place them in places you don't want them to go. For $2.99 + shipping, another great deal!

Air Filters: Haven't a clue. I tried STP recently, hopefully these prove to be a good deal!

Robbie Alexander · Sep 25, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by waldo1:
*-*-*-*-
3 is there an oil additive that is worth putting in ? [i keep hearing engine restore is great and can restore some lost power] And what will it do for my car?
*-*-*-

Most, almost all (NOPE) are junk. save you money and use a high quality oil.
As far as Restore: Yup, I've used it several times. Had a few cars with lots of miles on them when I go them (One blowing like crazy) I think she took six or eight cans before it stopped and compression was up. Any how, yes I would say as a last ditch effort before you rebuild or sink a lot of money into the auto, then try it, maybe several cans, It's okay in my book for a car that needs it, but don't just "plan" on using it.
Stick with a High Quality Oil, spend the money here, and keep your engine flushed from time ti time. Whenever you get oil leaks, fix them as soon as you can if the pocketbook allows. Use Good gas and consider a fuel treatment. Keep your electrical system in shape (no weak battery)... And Keep your Coolant system clean.

Clean Coolant, engine oil, stabil fuel and a strong battery will help your car go several more 100,000 miles.

edwardh1 · Sep 25, 2003

Consumer reports magazine says all api rated oils are Ok to use .

I have asked w/o an answer:
Is a modern but no name Sj oil better than the top quality SG or Sh oil (in its day 10 years ago) specified for my old car?

Scali62 · Sep 25, 2003

Go Citgo 10-30 on sale { rebate deal } comes to .69 per qt. when buying a case. Then buy O-30 Mobil 1, do a 50-50 mix.
Thats my brew in a 70k mile truck, she loves it...
{ told me so last night }

But I believe your getting a decent dino oil mixed with a fine synthetic @ less $ with a much better ratio then a bottled blend.....!

Mystic · Sep 25, 2003

An SL rated motor oil can replace any SJ, SH, or SG rated motor oil. The SL rated motor oil is superior in quality. In fact, unless you find old oil containers, you will probably have a hard time finding any SG or SH rated oil.

Virtuoso · Sep 25, 2003

1. I use Castrol GTX. It has shown good UOAs (even despite shearing), and my car just seems to like it. YMMV, if Valvoline is doing you well, then stick with it.

2. Ditch that Fram! Use anything but Fram, if possible. I use Napa Gold (Wix) for my filters, but anything but a Fram will do.

3. Don't use em. Just keep changing your oil regularly.

4. Again, I use Napa Gold for my filters (air and oil), but apparantly Fram air filters really do filter. I don't know how well they flow, though. They have given good UOAs, so if you want to stick with them go ahead.

Mostly just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Mystic · Sep 25, 2003

Everybody has given you good information. In a nutshell:

1. Conventional oil-Chevron; Pennzoil;Castrol.

2. Synthetic oil-lots of confusion here but I would say Mobil 1.

3. There are lots of good oil filters-Wix, NAPA Gold, Hastings, Baldwin, Fleetguard, CarQuest, Mobil 1, K&N, etc.

4: If your engine is dirty-Auto-RX or Neutra. Neutra is quite inexpensive and you can also use it as a fuel system cleaner. Lube Control is also available. As far as I have been able to determine-forget everything else.

5. I have not heard anything negative about FRAM air filters. Apparently they work good. Find a quality air filter that fits properly and is available for the lowest price-if you drive on dirt roads, you need to change the air filter more often.

waldo1 · Sep 25, 2003

thank you all for the great info i appreciate it.
so i am going to close the topics i think i have recieved solid info

CJH · Sep 25, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Mystic:
An SL rated motor oil can replace any SJ, SH, or SG rated motor oil. The SL rated motor oil is superior in quality.

Less ZDDP, right? So what makes it superior?

I think his question was would a brand name oil of older design be better than a current no-name oil?

[ September 26, 2003, 06:40 AM: Message edited by: CJH ]

3 Mad Ponchos · Sep 25, 2003

quote:

It has nearing 100,000 on it but its still really reliable

All I can add to this is a suggestion to change your mindset a little -- 100k on today's cars is no big deal. It's probably not even at midlife yet. Just keep taking good care of it and it'll last a really long time.

Cheers, 3MP

TSoA · Sep 26, 2003

Add some CD-2 a few weeks before your oil change, change it twice a year to Penzoil HMV 5w-30 in winter and 10w-30 in summer, topping with their Long-Life 15w-40. Done.

MolaKule · Sep 26, 2003

quote:

Less ZDDP, right? So what makes it superior?

I think his question was would a brand name oil of older design be better than a current no-name oil?

FYI:
There are some heavier weight (10W40) oils showing up at Wallyworld with the SF-SH ratings, and made or marketed by Accel, but we have no VOA's to determine their additive packages or their quality (or lack thereof) of base oils.

An SL oil is better because of the base oils used, and the improved additive packages which contain new AW's and detergents, which I believe are superior to high dosage ZDDP oils. ZDDP alone is NOT the Golden Grail by which to compare oils.

With regard to oil supplements, Schaeffer's #132 and the Valvoline "Engine Protector" show promise. Schaeffer's #132 is cheaper and has been tested by board members and shown to be a good all around supplement, when used as suggested (and in moderation). You prpbably wont need these unless you're racing or pulling heavy loads, or just wanting to thicken up a lightweight synthetic.

Engine cleaners tested here are Auto-RX, Neutra, and LC. Auto-RX and Schaeffer's Neutra are ester-based cleaners.

[ September 27, 2003, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

Need the truth about oil and additives please

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