Need Specific Oil - Nissan Versa w/Noisy Lifters

[skyship]

Rotella is a real good oil, so adding the ultra cheap contents and dubious base stock in a can of snake is just going to interefere with the oils own add pack.
Moly is by no means an essential additive (I tend to think Zinc sure is) and quite a number of the best major brand full synthetic oils don't contain any, although it is a good additive for conventional oils.

 

[Bladecutter]

Honestly, if it was my car, I would pop the valve cover off, and measure the actual valve clearance. If the valves are in spec, then I would try thicker oils, and a different oil filter.

If the valves are out of spec, then I would pull the shims, measure them, and get the ones that need to be changed, changed. No amount of oil is going to make up for sloppy valve clearances, no matter what you try.

Sometimes, you can get lucky, and only a couple are out of adjustment, and you might be able to swap shims from one position to another to fix some of the clearances, leaving you to buy only a couple, instead of 16 replacements.

Then again, I've done valve adjustments on motorcycle and car engines, including Ducati valvetrains, for years, so its not a daunting task for me.

BC.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

Skyship, LeakySeals, and Bladecutter....you make good points. I strongly agree that the problem is mechanical in nature.

I'm hoping that, now that I'm looking back at it...the valvetrain noise is due to the Nissan OEM oil. The noise was faintly there 50k miles ago and has continued to get worse until now. In that time period the only oil in that engine has been Nissan OEM.

Nissan employs some brilliant engineers I'm sure, so their oil is probably not junk. Actually, I found a VOA on their 5w-30 Ester Oil which is pretty impressive and has plenty of moly. Nissan puts this oil in the new sporty Maxima's and 370Z's. But I can't find anything on the conventional 5w-30.
VOA Here...

I am a hopeless optimist. I'm hoping a change in oil and viscosity will make a world of difference. Some cars run noisy on Mobil-1 but run great on Walmart oil, and vice-versa.

And BTW....although the MR18DE is a shim and bucket type of lifter design...there are no shims. The lifter sits directly on the valve. If there is excess clearance you need to buy a new lifter.....special order of course.

Pulling the valve cover off is not as easy as it sounds. Nissan wrapped the intake manifold over the valve cover. So you need to take the entire air intake system, throttle body, intake manifold, and drain the coolant...just to get to the top of the valve cover. Then I can change the spark plugs!

To take the valve cover off you need to remove the fuel rail and timing chain cover. I plan to do this when change the plugs since I'll be most of the way there anyways.

But for now....due to some comments, I'm on the fence about the Moly. User experiences say its great but rational thinking says it shouldn't be as great as it seems to be. Since adding moly isn't difficult I plan to put in some Rotella T6 fist and see what happens. Even if things improve I may add the moly just to see if makes it even better. We'll see.

 

[nicholas]

I find during the cold temps and my city driving, that carbon tends to build on the piston tops -
cold idle and cold engine driving.

 

[nicholas]

Hi Yoda, -- Pulling the valve cover off is not as easy as it sounds. Nissan wrapped the intake manifold over the valve cover. So you need to take the entire air intake system, throttle body, intake manifold, and drain the coolant...just to get to the top of the valve cover. Then I can change the spark plugs! ---

I have just recently checked my spark plugs - you don't actually need to drain the coolant to take off the valve cover - if you are so inclined?

PM me if you are interested - >

 

[nicholas]

As a side note - Nissan specs 15w-50 for the engine in hot climates--- really makes me wonder if a 5w-30 can really provide optimal lubrication for engine longevity.

The MR18DE is a joint venture with Renault - >> I really don't think it was designed for North American cold operating temps.

 

[nicholas]

As a side note - try adding the moly to a cheap oil - Tech2000 WalMart brand - and run it for 1000+miles -
I used LubroMoly MOS2 - 3/4 of a can.

I will say it again - it did make a noticeable difference in my Versa - especially when the engine has warmed up.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: AdmiralYoda
Nissan employs some brilliant engineers I'm sure, so their oil is probably not junk. Actually, I found a VOA on their 5w-30 Ester Oil which is pretty impressive and has plenty of moly. Nissan puts this oil in the new sporty Maxima's and 370Z's.


It's not all that impressive in UOAs, though, and its price will be rather high. I agree with the hopeless optimism, though. While you likely do have a mechanical issue, there's nothing wrong with doing a bit of oil experimentation before you actually get the fix done. Heck, I wouldn't have learned the value of MaxLife had I rushed to fix the F-150 engine.

Have they actually been using Nissan oil in it? Up here, they use Mobil products (conventional, blend, and synthetic) as service fills.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: AdmiralYoda
I'm hoping that, now that I'm looking back at it...the valvetrain noise is due to the Nissan OEM oil. The noise was faintly there 50k miles ago and has continued to get worse until now. In that time period the only oil in that engine has been Nissan OEM.

Nissan employs some brilliant engineers I'm sure, so their oil is probably not junk. Actually, I found a VOA on their 5w-30 Ester Oil which is pretty impressive and has plenty of moly.


First off, your Nissan dealer most likely buys their bulk oil from some company.
Could be Mobil, Valvoline, Pennzoil, etc. Call your dealer, talk to the service manager, and ask him specifically, what bulk oil they use.

Second, you really have to get in there and find out what the problem is.
Trying to cover up the problem with thicker engine oil might lead to a more expensive problem in the future.

BC.

 

[nicholas]

I think part of the design in the engine, MR18DE, allows for more than average noise levels. Clearances increase as outside temps drop. Keep an eye on your mileage, and perhaps go for a UOA to check wear metals?

Cheers
nik

 

[AdmiralYoda]

Originally Posted By: nicholas
I think part of the design in the engine, MR18DE, allows for more than average noise levels. Clearances increase as outside temps drop. Keep an eye on your mileage, and perhaps go for a UOA to check wear metals?


This is the general consensus on the Versa, Note, Cube, etc forums. Lets face it...it is an economy car/engine so I'm sure NVH wasn't the most at the top of the priority list. Add increased clearances due to cold temperatures and normal engine wear and you get noises that you didn't get when it was brand new.

The noise isn't loud enough to worry about just yet. Most people wouldn't even notice except me. Its something to keep an eye (or ear?) on for now. In the interest and sport of experimentation I am going to play around with different oils to see if it improves or not. In a handfull of oil changes if it ends up getting progressively worse it will be time to dig in. For now I will have some fun and see if it makes a difference.

Last night I went and bought the Rotella T6, PureOne oil filter, and a couple bottles of Techron. I also picked up two bottles of Lubri-Moly MOS2.

I have 600 or so miles until the next oil change so I figured I'd throw 200ml of mos2 in there to see if it will help. As many have mentioned...it *could* be snake oil, but it probably won't hurt. The car has been driven about 80 miles so far and it hasn't seemed to make a huge difference, and I didn't expect it to.

In 600 miles I'll change to oil to Rotella T6 5W-40 and see what the difference is...and I expect the change in viscosity to make the biggest difference. After a thousand miles or so I'll add another 200ml of MOS2 and see what happens.

For the next few tanks I'll run some Techron through to help clean things up.

We'll see.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: AdmiralYoda
Originally Posted By: nicholas
I think part of the design in the engine, MR18DE, allows for more than average noise levels. Clearances increase as outside temps drop. Keep an eye on your mileage, and perhaps go for a UOA to check wear metals?


This is the general consensus on the Versa, Note, Cube, etc forums. Lets face it...it is an economy car/engine so I'm sure NVH wasn't the most at the top of the priority list. Add increased clearances due to cold temperatures and normal engine wear and you get noises that you didn't get when it was brand new.

The noise isn't loud enough to worry about just yet. Most people wouldn't even notice except me. Its something to keep an eye (or ear?) on for now. In the interest and sport of experimentation I am going to play around with different oils to see if it improves or not. In a handfull of oil changes if it ends up getting progressively worse it will be time to dig in. For now I will have some fun and see if it makes a difference.

Last night I went and bought the Rotella T6, PureOne oil filter, and a couple bottles of Techron. I also picked up two bottles of Lubri-Moly MOS2.

I have 600 or so miles until the next oil change so I figured I'd throw 200ml of mos2 in there to see if it will help. As many have mentioned...it *could* be snake oil, but it probably won't hurt. The car has been driven about 80 miles so far and it hasn't seemed to make a huge difference, and I didn't expect it to.

In 600 miles I'll change to oil to Rotella T6 5W-40 and see what the difference is...and I expect the change in viscosity to make the biggest difference. After a thousand miles or so I'll add another 200ml of MOS2 and see what happens.

For the next few tanks I'll run some Techron through to help clean things up.

We'll see.


That's stuff is one of the only products I will keep buying. Mos2 is great stuff. Not snake oil. But don't bother unless you can leave it in at least 1000 miles. It doesn't work instantly. It takes time to "plate" the moving parts.
Put it in new oil at oil change and after 1000 miles you should be getting better mileage and noise may be reduced.
After the first treatment my experience is you only need half a can to maintain it.
Please keep us updated

Edit.
If you can get some mmo I'd run it for the rest of this interval just to clean everything inside and give the mos2 a clean surface to start with. It will aid and speed up the plating effect. Or an idle flush type product. Again it's not imperative but it will give the mos2 a clean surface ready for plating.