Need Specific Oil - Nissan Versa w/Noisy Lifters

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AdmiralYoda

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Hello Everyone! I'm hoping you guys can help steer me to the right oil. This isn't a typical "what's a good oil to use thread". I apologize for being long winded but want you to know all the details.

Some Backstory.....
My wife has a 2008 Nissan Versa SL with a 1.8L MR18DE engine. 103k miles on the clock. Like many Nissan 4-bangers, the valve train has gotten noisy as of late. Its been getting progressively worse over the years but now that its real cold it has gotten even more noticeable. The first 50k miles were synthetic 5W-30 (Mobil-1, Penzoil, Valvoline, whatever was cheaper) at 5-6k intervals. Since then my wife has been going to the dealer near her work every 4k for conventional 5W-30 oil changes...

The MR18DE does not have hydraulic lifters. The lifters are sized with different thickness to take up the slack. They are non adjustable. Not too much different then a flat tappet cam...just less parts.

I am mechanically able to change the lifters....but really don't want to just yet. Its a huge job an requires removal of the intake manifold, camshafts and timing chain. Then after I measure the play I would have to special order the specific lifters from Nissan. I want to see if the "perfect" oil helps.

Okay....So I've used the Search Button...
Being a hot rod fan I know that flat tappet cams require more zinc and phosphorus. More moly doesn't hurt either. That got me thinking....which synthetics have the best additive package for a noisy valvetrain? Browsing through some VOA's I came across this data (all numbers in PPM)....

Mobil-1 High Mileage Synthetic 5W-30
Manufacturer says: zinc-1100, phos-1000
VOA says: zinc-1015, phos-983, moly-78
VOA Here...

Valvoline MaxLife NextGen Synthetic 5W-30
Manufacturer says: zinc-830, phos-760
VOA says: zinc- 730, phos 650, moly-117
VOA Here...

Amsoil ASL Signature Series 5W-30 Synthetic
Manufacturer says: zinc-806, phos-730, moly-145
VOA says: zinc-822, phos-696, moly-152
VOA Here...

Amsoil Series 3000 HDD Diesel 5W-30 Synthetic
Manufacturer says: ??? Unknown
VOA says: zinc-1365, phos-1107, moly-???
VOA Here....From 2004, VW TDI Forum...Only One I Could Find

Redline 5W-30 Synthetic
Manufacturer says: ??? Unknown
VOA says: zinc-1504, phos-1221, moly-670
VOA Here...

cry.gif
We're Getting There....Stay With Me...
Of course there are other things that matter like TBN, NOACK, Viscosity, etc but I'd have to say that the Redline looks very promising. I wish I could find some more data on the Amsoil HDD because I have a feeling that would be great as well. For over the counter stuff...M1 High Mileage looks pretty good too.

I don't mind spending the money for the good stuff. Does anyone have any experiences with these oils specifically to quiet noisy drivetrain? Anyone have any experiences with the above oils? I appreciate your wisdom!!!
 
If money is no object I suggest red line hands down. I would use it exclusively naïf it wasn't 20 bucks a quart here. I can get a jug of PP for that kind of money. However it is a premier oil with a seriously fortified additive package and ester based which means spotless internals.
A few uoa lately have shown it may not be an extended drain oil though so be mindful of that.
Red line all the way.
 
Originally Posted By: Danno
Have you considered QS Defy?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2858274


No I had not...actually I've never paid any attention to QS. No reason not too....just never had. I guess the hard part of my original question results on paper don't always line up with actual user experiences. Seems like another option though.

BTW....I don't do UOA's so I don't really stretch my oil changes to the max. How far can RedLine go? When using premium synthetics I usually to to about 7500 miles OCI with a Purolator PureOne filter. Sure I could stretch it further but I'd rather be safe than sorry since I havn't done a UOA.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Add Rotella T6 5w40.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=134913&Number=1939470
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=158546&Number=2330040

Off your list I have used M1 HM and Redline. The T6 was quieter (IMO) than both.


I'm sure it would be being a 5w-40. If I put 20w-50 in there I bet you wouldn't even hear it run! But I worry about increasing the viscosity to 5w-40.... I'm not sure why but it worries me.

Does the T6 come in 5w-30?

Since you used M1-HM and Redline....which was the quieter of the two? Did you use 5w-30 or 5w-40?
 
Nope. 5w40 only. I used it in a tiny old 00 Corolla 4-banger that ticked and vibrated like crazy. It was beautiful quiet and smooth after. So I already tested that worry for you. Flows nice in the cold, plenty of pep, good gas mileage.

Both the Redline and the M1 HM were the same.
 
I highly doubt that oil will cure anything. This is a mechanical issue, not a lubrication issue.
I'm sure that running something much thicker than necessary may lessen the noise, but that doesn't mean the issue will not get any worse.
I would either live with it or adjust the clearances.
 
Right, who knows what the problem really is. Could be sticky/cleanliness or mechanical valve clearance/wear. If its sticky, needs a cleanup, then I would go with the M1 HM. Had the best results with that. If its clean, just a little loose, the T6 may mask it off some or completely in the case of the 00 Corolla.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I highly doubt that oil will cure anything. This is a mechanical issue, not a lubrication issue.
I'm sure that running something much thicker than necessary may lessen the noise, but that doesn't mean the issue will not get any worse.
I would either live with it or adjust the clearances.


I do plan to live with it.....with the oil that will keep the noise to a minimum. The noise is normal for a highish mileage Nissan 4-banger with non-hydraulic, non-adjustable drivetrain. Many Nissans are known for sounding like sewing machines, specifically the ones without hydraulic lifters.

I just don't like it and would rather throw $30-$40 of good oil at it to quiet it a bit then spend a weekend and a few hundred dollars rebuilding the top end.

Next Question
I have a feeling that increasing the viscosity to a 5w-40 is most of the reason the T6 quiets better than the others at 5w-30.

Lets pretend money is no object. What about Redline 5w-40 combared to T6 5w-40???
 
I find the (true syns) like redline and Amsoil even M1 EP make my engines more noisy. I would use the T6 5w40 next choice would be QS Defy (or visa/versa depending on which is cheaper) don't worry about trying to find the most expensive oil first. Try to find the cheapest oil that will fit your needs. M1 HM would be my third choice. There is no particular order they are all great lubes.

BTW: What oil filters are you using? Just curious.
 
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For that comparison..Based on the UOA's on here the T6 resists breakdown/shear "longer". Redline appears to be a short(er) OCI oil than other brands.
 
Red line formulates an extremely high end oil. But application dependent. I'd use their 0w-30 or their 0w-40 in your engine. I think it's capable of your specified drain interval.
Red line oils tend to run on the thick side of the grade. In a gas engine rotella and red line aren't even playing the same game.
If money was no object I would use nothing but red line lubricants. I use their gear oil in my Harley's tranny and the diffs on my truck. I've got about 20 quarts of their 5w-30 and 5w-40 that will end up in the hemi this summer for towing my trailer through the mountains with my family.
Have you considered M1 0w-40 or German castrol 0w-30. They are both fantastic oils. What about maybe a euro spec oil. They tend to be far more stout due to longer drain intervals specified over in Europe. A euro spec might be exactly what you need.
 
I just put Amsoil 0W-30 in my miata with solid lifters and it's the quietest I've had the engine. Same went for when I put it in my 2007 Mazda6 (2.3L). I'd give it a shot since you're definitely in a cold climate.

I hate to say it but I had a friend with a Versa and the engine went even with religious maintenance.
 
Brand won`t change engine noise,only the weight will. Try a 0w/5w/10W40.

Walmart has some cheap ones:

Synpower 5W40
Syntec 10W40
Mobil 1 0W40
Mobil 1 10W40HM

You could even try a good dino 10W40 like GTX,Valvoline,or Pennzoil.
 
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First.....thanks everyone for all the replies!

To answer some questions:
For the 1st 50k miles I used M1-EP, Castrol-Edge, or Valvoline Synpower 5w-30 at 5000-7500 mile intervals. I would either use a M1 or PureOne filter. From 50k to now (105k) it has been the Nissan OEM 5w-30 and filter.

Clevy....you said:
"Red line oils tend to run on the thick side of the grade. In a gas engine rotella and red line aren't even playing the same game". Can you clarify? Do you mean that one is way better than the other?

Can anyone comment on the Amsoil HDD 5w-30 diesel oil? Seems to be pretty stout.
 
Originally Posted By: brandini
I just put Amsoil 0W-30 in my miata with solid lifters and it's the quietest I've had the engine. Same went for when I put it in my 2007 Mazda6 (2.3L). I'd give it a shot since you're definitely in a cold climate.

I hate to say it but I had a friend with a Versa and the engine went even with religious maintenance.


I'm definitely going to go with a 0W for the winter and 5W for the summer...the question is whether or not to bump it up to a 30 or 40 weight oil.

I have a feeling that your friends engine going was the exception rather than the norm. The MR18DE engine or a version almost identical to it has been used in Sentra's and Cube's too. Also the Mexican, Brazilian, Canadian, Japanese, and Chinese equivalents. No reputation for engine failure....just a reputation for sounding like a sewing machine once they age a bit.
 
Hi, I am also a versa owner with the awesome mr18de engine. Here are some helpfull tips I have learned over the years.

-the mr18de is the loudest engine I have ever owned, as the temp drops it progressively gets worse. -25c to -30c this week!
-5w-40 so far is the best blend of economy and noise control.
-a moly treatment made a noticeable difference in noise and engine feel.
-blocking off 80% of the rad in cold weather has also helped - it has been -25c all week long, the car can take a while to warm up and quiet down the valve train.
-The cylinder tops and combustion chambers can build carbon easily - Before and after the cold weather I always perform a water combustion chamber cleaning - this also makes a difference, especially at idle.

Overall, ok little engine - great gas mileage when taken care of>:)
 
Thank you Nicolas....good to know!

I do plan to add some Techron through the next few tanks and shoot some Seafoam into a vacuum line to decarbonize it a bit. Its at 105k and I really haven't needed to mess with it at all. After the Techron and Seafoam I plan to change the plugs to factory OEM's, its time.

You mentioned a moly treatment....what product did you use? Most of the reason I am trying to justify the Redline oil is the moly. 650ppm(Redline 5w-30) vs 63ppm(Rotella T6 5w-40).

I think I've made my mind up on going to a a 0w-40 or 5w-40. What brand are you using?

Although the temps aren't as cold as they are in your neck of the woods. Normal dead of winter temps are low 30'sF during the day and low 10'sF at night. This week it has been hovering between 10-15F during the day and -5 to 0 during the night.

Cold but not block the radiator cold.
 
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