Naturally green or is it dyed?

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8
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Albuquerque
Is it known if the green GC is dyed or is the color a natural result of its formulation? If it's natual, I would guess that maybe the green and gold formulations are not as close.
 

armasteel

Thread starter
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8
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Albuquerque
Makes me wonder if the formula was changed long before they stopped adding the dye. It seems to be assumed any formula changes coinside with the color change.
 

vad

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1,856
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So Cal
.........Green.....Green.....Green.......Green........Gold ..........M04023..M04097..M04280...M05010.......M05028 P.........1076......1105......1123.......1222...........903 ZN.......1277......1187......1287.......1348...........1157 CA.......3401......3683......3431.......3428...........1941 MG.......222........218.......238.........229............770 TBN......9.03.......8.47......8.81........9.03...........9.03
 

vad

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1,856
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So Cal
Elements are quantified in the oil at part per million levels (PPM). P - Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive. ZN -Zinc: Anti-wear additive. CA - Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive. MG - Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive. TBN - TBN (total base number) measures the amount of active additive in a sample of oil. The TBN is useful for people who want to extend their oil usage far beyond the normal range. By comparing the TBN of a used oil to the TBN of the same oil in virgin condition, the user can determine how much reserve additive the oil has left to neutralize acids. The lower the TBN reading, the less active additive the oil has left (in a used oil sample). According to the table the only change from Green GC to Gold is that Castrol increased Mg, and lowered Ca. The significance? See the next post. Element Description Source [ December 19, 2005, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: vad ]
 

vad

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1,856
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So Cal
Here is BOBISTHEOILGUY himself: "How do tbn numbers and sulfated ash levels relate to engine oil performance? Sulfated ash and TBN are two of the physical and chemical measurements made on the engine-oil. They are not a direct measure of an engine oil's performance. The higher the number is not necessarily better. Sulfated ash is a direct measure of the amount of oil additives that contain metal. These metallic base additives make up the detergent and anti-wear additive systems that prevent deposits and wear. They generally contain metals such as calcium, magnesium and zinc. The total base number (TBN) is a measure of the engines oil's ability to neutralize any acids that may be formed during the combustion of the diesel fuel. Historically, the higher the engine oil's total base number the better its ability to neutralize any acids that may be formed. However, starting out with a high TBN DOES NOT GUARANTEE that the engine oil will RETAIN its high level of TBN during service. With the drive by users and equipment manufactures toward extended engine oil drain intervals and the future of exhaust gas recirculation to reduce emissions there is a greater need for the engine oil to contain an effective detergent/dispersant additive system that will not only effectively neutralize any acidic components that may be formed, but also retain its TBN throughout the engine oil's drain interval. An engine oil's tbn will reduce over time and use. Today's diesel engines are designed to have lower oil consumption rates and smaller sump capacities. With the desire for longer oil drain intervals and engine oil that has a tbn of 8, 10 or even higher could actually have a tbn of 4 or 5 by the time the oil is either refreshed though makeup or changed. Therefore, it is critical that an engine oil exhibit very good to excellent tbn capability in order to prevent engine wear and bearing corrosion. The ability of an engine oil to retain its tbn throughout the engine oil's drain interval is dependent upon the type of detergent/dispersant additive chemistry used in it formulation. An all calcium based detergent/dispersant additive package that not only effectively neutralizes any acidic components that may be formed but also can provide excellent tbn retention over the engine oil's drain interval. Most heavy duty diesel engine oils contain either a high magnesium based or a calcium/magnesium based detergent dispersant additive system. Magnesium base detergent systems though they will neutralize acids as the are formed, do not have the same effective acid neutralizing capabilities as an all calcium based additive system. Magnesium based detergent additive systems do not neutralize any of the weak acids that may have been formed by the combustion of the diesel fuel. These weak acids over time can build up in the engine oil eventually causing the engine oil to rapidly lose its tbn retention. Magnesium based detergents are primarily used in the formulation of car engine oil formulation because of their ability to allow these engine oils to pass the various engine sequence tests used to measure wear protection. However, in heavy duty diesel engine oils magnesium base detergents can cause higher wear in the ring-belt area of a diesel engine. Magnesium based detergents from magnesium oxides when the neutralize acids, a by product of the acid neutralization reaction. Magnesium oxide is very hard in consistency and can abrade and polish cylinder walls. Calcium based detergents on the other hand form calcium sulfate when they neutralize acids. Calcium sulfate is very soft and fluffy in consistency and is soluble in oil. Calcium based detergents in addition have been found to enhance a diesel engine oil's ability to provide excellent high temperature piston cleanliness, provide excellent protection against bore polishing and enhance the soot handling capabilities of the engine oil. How high of a TBN is really necessary and how critical is the number? This question comes up continually, and it deserves some clarification. TBN is not a measure of an engine oil's performance, and an engine oil with a higher TBN number such as 13 or 14 is not necessarily better than an engine oil that has a tbn of 10. There are two things that are more critical to know about TBN than its starting point: how it measured and the rate at which it depletes. The ASTM has tree methods for measuring TBN. If these three different test methods were used to test the same new oil, each method would give three different answers. In other words, the TBN rating of an engine oil is affected by the test method used to measure it. It is Schaeffer Mfg's experience and the experience of many other oil analysis lab's that the ASTM d-2896 test method will produce a higher TBN rating and the D-4739 test method will result in a lower number. The third method ASTM D-664 is now an obsolete test method and is only used to measure the total acid number of lubricating fluids such as hydraulic fluids. Most companies use the ASTM D-2896 test method to measure the TBN of a new oil. However, when testing used engine oil, it is the ASTM D-4739 test method that provides the most reliable results. The ASTM-D4739 test method more accurately reflects the level of neutralizing power left in the engine oil after use. The ASTM D-2896 test method, because ir measures the high end of alkalinity, may indicate that more base is left in the engine oil than what may truly be left in the engine oil or is advisable for continuing service. Most used oil analysis programs use the ASTM-D2896 method unless another test method is requested, because This test method is easier and faster to run. Since TBN is a very critical factor especially with the advent of EGR containing engines, which will produce and introduce more acidic components into the engine oil and you're trying to extend oil drain intervals, the ASTM D-4739 test method should be used and specified by you.. The ASTM D-4739 test method provides a more accurate indication of serviceability, especially if trying to extend oil drain intervals. The second important feature of TBN, more critical than how high high it is rated, is the rate at which it depletes during use. As we stated in the previous question on tbn some engine oil start with a high tbn and then drop and lose their neutralizing ability quickly. Other engine oils can start with a lower tbn, deplete at a slower rate and maintain their alkalinity for a much longer period of time. Naturally, what is important is how well an engine oil can maintain its tbn during service. The real value of a tbn number is not determining an engine oils quality; it is in making sure an engine oil is not becoming corrosive at the engine of a drain period. This is another case of requirements changing with the times, and the old tradition of a tbn level of greater than 10 for otr vehicles cannot be used as a rule of thumb anymore. Engine designs have drastically changed over the years and fuel sulfur levels have dropped significantly during the last decade, so that even in off road application where fuel sulfur can be as high as 0.5%, the demand for a very high tbn rating cannot really be justified. What is more important is how the engine oil's tbn will last and maintain it neutralizing ability over the entire oil drain interval."
 

vad

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1,856
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So Cal
The American made 5w40 has been out for a while. It conforms to the VW specs and should be great for the VW owners whose cars are still under warranty.  - So far nobody has reported seeing the new non-German 0w30. Whom at Castrol did you speak to?
 

vad

Messages
1,856
Location
So Cal
quote:
Vad. I called some way back in summer. The tech. rep. said that 0w30 is being made in the States.
You've got one of the front line call center reps reading from an outdated script - in most cases a clueless person. [Wink]
 
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580
Location
Ontario Canada
Vad. There is a big differance in the detergent/dispersant package. The gold has less calcium and over double the magnesium. This looks like the Belgium made 5w40 that everyone jumped on that it was no good because of the high level of magnesium. Anyway, it looks like the German made 0w30 will end. I just saw the new 5w40 Syntec bottles and on the back it states: European Formula Now Blended In The USA. I was told by Castrol that the 0w30 is now made in the USA.
 
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1,527
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Mid-West, USA
quote:
Originally posted by 2KBMW: Vad. There is a big differance in the detergent/dispersant package. The gold has less calcium and over double the magnesium. This looks like the Belgium made 5w40 that everyone jumped on that it was no good because of the high level of magnesium. Anyway, it looks like the German made 0w30 will end. I just saw the new 5w40 Syntec bottles and on the back it states: European Formula Now Blended In The USA. I was told by Castrol that the 0w30 is now made in the USA.
I see that you say that the high magnesium is not good. Well, can someone explain why that is? Is gold really as good with these numbers?
 
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5,358
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Gone
The new 06 post-post-Katrina batch (back to the bottles we are used to) is STILL made in Germany. I bought some today. When I took the Autozone customer online survey I pointed out that it was their carrying the rare German-made 0W30 that keeps me coming back to Autozone as opposed to say NAPA or Advance Auto. I hope they get--AND PASS ON TO CASTROL--the message. Trust me, the Elves FULLY understand this, but they only have so much influence.
 
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580
Location
Ontario Canada
Coop0129. My comments back then were made on the fact that everyone jumped all over the Belgian made 5w40 Syntec for having a high Magnesium amount. No one cares now that the gold GC has a high Magnesium content. Magnesium oxide is supposed to be abrasive. [I dont know]
 
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