Natural Oil is just as good as Synthetic Oil (comments please).
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After reading all of the comments on this topic I had to offer my .02 on the matter. The conventional vs. synthetic debate is exaggerated.
There are far more important factors that determine how long your engine will last other than oil choice. A few of them:
1. How you drive.
2. Overall quality/workmanship of the engine.
Some U.O.A's look good regardless of what oil
is used on a particular engine (ex. Subaru).
3. Maintenance of cooling system.
I believe the choice in motor oil only accounts for +/- 5% change in engine life loss/gain as long as the maintenance is done frequently (3k for dino, 6K-8K with synthetic).
There's no doubt synthetics provide better lubrication. I would/will use them if it works out financially in my favor (for example if my vehicles wouldn't burn a quart in 6-7K miles).
I can't believe the number of members has doubled since I joined!
[ June 06, 2003, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: ryansride2017 ]
There are far more important factors that determine how long your engine will last other than oil choice. A few of them:
1. How you drive.
2. Overall quality/workmanship of the engine.
Some U.O.A's look good regardless of what oil
is used on a particular engine (ex. Subaru).
3. Maintenance of cooling system.
I believe the choice in motor oil only accounts for +/- 5% change in engine life loss/gain as long as the maintenance is done frequently (3k for dino, 6K-8K with synthetic).
There's no doubt synthetics provide better lubrication. I would/will use them if it works out financially in my favor (for example if my vehicles wouldn't burn a quart in 6-7K miles).
[ June 06, 2003, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: ryansride2017 ]
themechanic member #638;
I like the answer you posted on this thread June 4th. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks, I'm flattered.
I like the answer you posted on this thread June 4th. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks, I'm flattered.
quotes from Blackstone Labs. "Synthetic oil won't guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I'll live until I'm 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us.
What's the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine"
Also I can't find it yet, but they also said They see no difference in Synthetic and dino use for normal driving.
What's the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine"
Also I can't find it yet, but they also said They see no difference in Synthetic and dino use for normal driving.
"Consumer Reports" latest issue recommends synthetic oil in engines that are known sludge makers...certain Toyota/Lexus, VW/Audi, DaimlerChrylsler, Saab.
Ken
Ken
There's no doubt, Ken, some engines, either through design considerations or implementation, need the extra protection of synthetics - especially if they're regularly thrashed. (Can anyone come up with the five-letter word I'm thinking? Hint: it starts with "T" and ends with "o".) But for the more mundane designs, especially those in which the engineers allowed for adequate oil return rates to the sump and also took care to design out hot spots, conventionals - especially "SL" and "SM" - are perfectly adequate out to 5,000 miles when driven routinely at freeway speeds. "Conventional" is not a synonym for "static" oil technology. These oils all, or nearly so, using Group II base stocks, or above, have progressed considerably over the past decade. I wouldn't be surprised that by the time the next API service designation rolls out, some "conventional" formulations will be made with 100% Group III base stocks. Anyone care to disagree with that fearless prediction?
The difference to me appears to be OCI length only these days. The gap has narrowed due to better additives and base stocks in dino oils. No more high wax (in fact none in some like Chevron ISOSYN) content, bad viscosity improvers, and other unrefined bad stuff to clog your engine in many mineral oils. Even Quaker State is OK now. I've gone back to dino for the cars with short OCIs.
MolaKule
Staff member
Ray H is "right on."
This is the true "beauty" of hydro-isomerization (aka, ISO-SYN). Unlike filtration, in which some (hopefully most) of the wax is drawn off through filtration for whatever other uses, the waxy side chains are chemicaly broken and re-assembled under catalytic conversion in the presence of high pressure hydrogen to desirable, uniform length, straight chain paraffin base stock oil molecules as the feed stock is processed in the reaction vessel. (We won't mention the word, "synthesis", though Chevron subtly does so with the suffix, "SYN", since doing so sets so many BITOGers on edge if used to describe anything other than polymerization, "real" he-man synthesis . . .)
Question: Do they need the protection of synthetics, or only if they want extended drain intervals? In other words would dino oil be just as good with 3K OCIs as synthetics at 7K OCIs?
The local Costco sells a lot of Chevron Suprime, both conventional and synthetic, more than all other brands combined (Mobil 1 is in the group of others). By the way, what is Chevron synthetic? And how does it compair to Mobil 1?
So, in San Diego, you don't need synthetic?
So, in San Diego, you don't need synthetic?
It depends on if your engine will benefit from syn oil or not. Spend some time studying the used oil anaylsis and see for your self. I really can't prove which is better.What I will say is I spent 23 years as a mechanic in an equipment dealership.There were semis, cars and service vans ,forklifts, tractors and alot of customer equipment. All of the stuff had Delo 30wt or 15w/40 ,and the engines would last untill the rest of the equipment was falling apart,but there are alot of applications that syn oil is needed as in freezing weather, or where the oil temps gets really hot ." Extreme heat and cold" I use syn oil I don't know why though.
Hey Folks!
I am currently quantifying the information from another thread regarding cars with 150,000 miles or more and the oils used etc. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of respondants used dino oil (usually different brands, depending upon price) and changed their oil between 3000 and 5000 miles. Users of synthetic oils typically had longer OCIs and similar longevity as the dino users with 3000 mile OCIs. Just for your information.
I am currently quantifying the information from another thread regarding cars with 150,000 miles or more and the oils used etc. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of respondants used dino oil (usually different brands, depending upon price) and changed their oil between 3000 and 5000 miles. Users of synthetic oils typically had longer OCIs and similar longevity as the dino users with 3000 mile OCIs. Just for your information.
To expand: Extended OCIs would be one justification. Driving a sludge monster would be another. Driving a turbocharged engine would be another. Driving a turbocharged sludgemonster, doing wheelies at every green light, and only changing the oil and filter every 12,000 miles might even be another...
You know, this thread is amusing. I use RedLine oil in one of our cars. I cannot justify it economically. Very few can in a street car whose engine is worth less than ~$5,000. The savings with dino oil will pay for the engine rebuild or the warranty to replace it by the time it fails. If you want to extend drain intervals, use an all-fleet oil. The all-fleets have the supercharged add-packs the synths have had for years, which will let you extend OCIs. Combine that with the type of base stocks RayH is talking about, and you have very nearly ounce-for-ounce protection with most synthetic oils but at only $1-$2 per quart. That's even cheaper than the premium "regular" dino oils!
Again, don't get me wrong, I use synthetic in one of our vehicles' engines and in all our transmissions & axles. The reason why, though, in terms of motor oil, it's because of that warm, fuzzy feeling, not because of actual performance benefits in proportion to the cost.
Again, don't get me wrong, I use synthetic in one of our vehicles' engines and in all our transmissions & axles. The reason why, though, in terms of motor oil, it's because of that warm, fuzzy feeling, not because of actual performance benefits in proportion to the cost.
And, you, good Sir, have made what I consider an honorable, reasoned, and just case for your position. I tip my hat (and raise my glass) to you!
I would be more inclined to use a synthetic ATF than a synthetic motor oil. We all know that many motors run well over 200K on dino oil. ATF on the other hand breaks down due to heat and synthetic ATF withstands heat better than dino ATF. So I would rather put Mobil 1 ATF in my tranny and use a good dino or blend in my engine.
One only has to look at Mobil's new marketing to see where oil performance stacks up. Clean 5000, G-III with advanced borate add pack, good for an easy 5000 miles. Clean 7500, blend some PAO in and bump up the add pack, a good oil for mid-length intervals. Mobil 1 EP, 15,000 miles...wow, that's far. If your car burns oil, use cheap stuff. If your car is cheap, use cheap stuff. If you have a hi-performance or expensive or difficult to service car, use the good stuff. Myself, I don't want to change oil out in the cold weather, so I need something that will get me from Nov-Mar, 4 months means 8000 miles for me.
They did said that, but you left out something...they said that OR to use conventional oil and to change it useing the severe service oil change interval and keep detail records of this.
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